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АМЕА
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Post by АМЕА » Sat Apr 24, 2010 19:44

Андрей Кабанков wrote:I thought the staff we not particularly overworked,so it seemed strange :)
Andrew, here's another consideration - you all sit in a room full of instruments, effects, and Radionic your next is included.... Have you ever thought, studied, as all this affects the energy metabolism of the brain?

After all your devices-then act, right?

Offer to come to you again and to make a screening of all your employees, to clarify the situation...

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Post by АМЕА » Sat Apr 24, 2010 23:35

That way, a reference is like using Neuroanesthesiology (aka AMEA), along with Voll and GDV, verify the effectiveness of the gadgets.

http://neitronik.su/index/0-10

Макс Верховцев

Post by Макс Верховцев » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:02

Interestingly,and ischo not come up with a "clone"of tomography?
Well,for domestic purposes. :D

ПЭТ

Post by ПЭТ » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:51

clone tomography ischo no, toolstotal clones of Desagravo.....

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Post by ЛИЛИЯ-Р » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:00

In vain sneer.If he was the type of watch or manometr like a bracelet but was measured as OMEA(such a mobile measuring of stressa else would do well and the pressure and reduce the heat and maybe something else)of small size and at an affordable price. It would be a super device and it would be eventually used as to hours.The thing I think is good.Stress it's like a beach.When informed at the time that armed. So if someone could create this super device you thumbnail images of and at a tolerable price would be super.Even though he of all indicators does not give but what is stress and at what level it is already worth a lot and you can take steps to eliminate it

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Post by ГОРОДСКОЙ СУМАСШЕДШИЙ » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:10

ЛИЛИЯ-Р wrote:When informed at the time that armed. So if someone could create this super device you thumbnail images of and at a tolerable price would be super.
Inventors... innovators... develop a.
Inexpensive device bare, simplified functionality, reduced size, fully self-contained.
Any ideas?

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Post by ГОРОДСКОЙ СУМАСШЕДШИЙ » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:58

THE ELECTRICAL RESISTANCE OF THE SKIN AS AN INDICATOR
PSYCHOPHYSIOLOGICAL STATE OF A PERSON
Kalashnikov V. N. Ph. D.
Electrophysiological methods of research of psyche are based on registration of biopotentials occurring in the tissue of a living organism spontaneously or in response to external stimulation. Changing psycho-physiological state is reflected in electrophysiological indicators; high emotional tension – increase of wave amplitude; unstable attention – decrease the amplitude of the wave (the so-called "Wave of expectations"). Proven that the electric skin resistance is very sensitive to the physical and psychological changes in the human body. Any local changes and processes in the human body have an impact on the electric skin resistance. It is proved that the norm of the electric skin resistance of a person in a state of relaxation increases and the activation state decreases. That is, the skin resistance increases when the person calms down and falls asleep, and decreases the mental agitation and mobilization. Accordingly, the opposite factors are the pathology. Galvanic skin response (GSR) – a species of electrodermal activity (the electrical activity of the skin) and measure the electrical conductivity of the skin. This indicator has physical and tonic forms. Physical form GSR is one of the components of the indicative reflex that occurs in response to a new stimulus and fading with his repetition. The tonic form of the GSR is characterized by a slow change of skin conductivity, which develop, e.g. fatigue. Currently, along with the term GSR is used and the term aeacus (the electrical activity of the skin). EAK associates mental processes with electrical phenomena in the body. GSR is widely used to study the activity of the autonomic nervous system, determine the characteristics of psychophysiological responses, and studies of personality traits. GSR is widely used in psycho-physiological, physiological, clinical and physiological ecological studies as a highly sensitive, simple and technically easily identifiable indicator of the level of activity of the sympathetic nervous system, as well as for the assessment of neuropsychiatric stress in the person. Increased interest in GSR can be explained by the fact that with the help of these reactions, it is possible to open a "window to the unconscious processes" and to show "the intensity of conscious experiences" and "psychological importance" of external influence. The famous "phenomenon Krasnova," effect of change of potential difference of resistance of the skin in connection with the orientation reaction and emotions. It is particularly important that unconsciously emotionally significant stimulus might not be able to call a verbal report, but it causes galvanic skin reactions, may not cause a motor response, but may indirectly influence the responsiveness to subsequent stimuli. Each person has their own physiological level of skin resistance. Diagnostics of physical and especially psychological status should be conducted only in the dynamics. This sets an individual for a person the normal range of signal levels and the deviation from this range it is possible to judge the impact of stress. Thus it becomes possible to identify events that were stressful or Psychotrauma character of this person.<

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Post by ГОРОДСКОЙ СУМАСШЕДШИЙ » Thu Jun 10, 2010 13:04

Two plates, wires, power source, monitor.

Individual calibration (tuning).

No extra is the inclusion of the clock circuit (for monitoring).

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Post by Шалтай Балтай » Thu Jun 10, 2010 13:08

Like somewhere already discussed
here is a good thing. IMHO:
Image
although do not use it.

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Post by ГОРОДСКОЙ СУМАСШЕДШИЙ » Thu Jun 10, 2010 13:36

ГОРОДСКОЙ СУМАСШЕДШИЙ wrote:Cheap biofeedback device
ГОРОДСКОЙ СУМАСШЕДШИЙ wrote:Two plates, wires, power source, monitor.
Need a scooter and a car.

НЭК

Post by НЭК » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:12

Galvanic skin response (GSR) described in the article above is a well known phenomenon. Of ANAS has to deal with similar reactions, only registration is conducted from the scalp, therefore the described potentials characterize BRAIN activity, and not vegetation. Thus, the parasitic GSR is filtered by hardware, so as not to "drown" the signal from the brain.

НЭК

Post by НЭК » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:17

And about availability and prices.... what 10 sput for a modern amplifier/analizatar of biopotentials is a lot? And there are alternatives? There, they and heart rate to measure and map brain activity in the dynamics of building and medical report print, and via Bluetooth to PC online data transfer. There are 300 sput.)))

НЭК

Post by НЭК » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:45

What: crazy town

The idea is very good. Now explain from the standpoint of circuit design: the proposed scheme relates to amplifiers of biopotentials, as if she just didn't look at first glance. Based on this we unavoidably face the following challenges:

and. 2 plates - will not go - you need a non-polarizable silver chloride electrodes, 2 PCs., min for 250 rubles, without taking into account the prices of the socket and the plug. Even stainless steel X18 with a stated value of polarization discovers a terrible drift, is submit it as a visible current in the electrolyte solution. That is, the "wrong" sensors are by themselves "generate" spurious potentials, not allowing you to see the natural.

b. power supply (well, at least a decent case with a battery compartment) for the operation of the circuit is 6 V (4 AA batteries) - hence the higher prices and the increase in weight and size of the whole device.

C. monitor well, at least the LCD - 250 RUB Small displays will not work - year.

G. basic circuit design - processor with ADC, quartz, amplifier, chip, logic - confirmation with a total cost for a couple of thousand rubles.

D. the user's Keyboard to control the device - a couple of thousand.

E. the Firmware (program) of the device.

Well.... 200 bucks is typed in, and all this without development costs and pay performers.

It all we went through before he created a device of ANAS, which is much richer in functionality than described RAG-recorder. Price in production can certainly be reduced if you book a party of 50 thousand copies in Malaysia, but this one will not do.

By the way, you can try your idea on a normal Chinese multimeter (tester) in the millivoltmeter mode. I checked repeatedly - either the dog does not work)))).

So.... easier to take of ANAS and enjoy the biopotentials of the brain in full, it's worth it)))

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Post by ЛИЛИЯ-Р » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:39

Disagree that little can be done although it may not yet. Early computers(PC) has been on several premises. And now on the table and in a small bag or even in your pocket. :wink: .The progress however. This is how I would like to have.even for 10 thousand

АМЕА-Р

The size of the device of ANAS

Post by АМЕА-Р » Sun Jun 27, 2010 15:28

ЛИЛИЯ-Р wrote:I do Not agree that little can be done although it may not yet. Early computers(PC) has been on several premises. And now on the table and in a small bag or even in your pocket. :wink: .The progress however. This is how I would like to have.even for 10 thousand
Lily, of course, to make the device less is not difficult. We chose this case based on the following reasons - power supply 4 x AA batteries (not to change the batteries every day) and display 6x2 cm, so you can easily see the results of the measurements. The Board itself of ANAS 6x7 cm and a weight of 30 grams) a Small device is uncomfortable to use and require the use of more expensive components, which will inevitably affect the price, especially parties that we produce hundreds of copies of ANAS That's why now is housing 17х7х3 see

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Post by Андрей Патрушев » Sun Jun 27, 2010 16:14

Well, for me personally, such a device as an indicator of stress has no independent value. By the way, there are excellent alternatives as Freeze Framer and HRV (Heart Rate Variable) that can be significantly cheaper (at least in cost of sales :)) and more stable in operation.
But the analogue of the "Mind Mirror 3" I would have taken for himself and over 20 thousand (not thinking particularly :?) and I think he would be in demand and in educational institutions (for example, we in the Department of physiology would fit perfectly in the learning process).
http://www.mindmirroreeg.com/w/equipment/mm3/mm3.htm

АМЕА-Р

Post by АМЕА-Р » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:06

Andrew, thanks for Your opinion, however, criticism of the "stability" of the work of ANAS has under itself no soil, or am I wrong?)

HRV and other gadgets are not equivalent to or alternatives of ANAS, You as a doctor know it. Diagnosis of metabolic stress the consumption of glucose, in addition to PAT and NEK/of ANAS no device does.

About Maynd mirror iza Your reference - do not argue, the machine is interesting, I'm sure you could do something like the analog better go, and I was even able to do it. The price of 20 thousand rubles can be relevant when the party in 1000 copies, it looks quite attractive, but I doubt that there is at least one person who will agree to refinansirovat this project (multiply the cost (about $ 300) for circulation).

But... why is it necessary, used there are plenty of beautiful professional certified EEG systems?

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Post by Андрей Патрушев » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:16

АМЕА-Р wrote:Andrew, thanks for Your opinion, however, criticism of the "stability" of the work of ANAS has under itself no soil, or am I wrong?)
I'm not in the least doubt the value of Your method and secure Your unit. My conclusion is purely speculative and based on principles of removing and processing the signal. In EEG are all highly dependent on the reliability of the contact with the skin, displacement of the electrodes during measurements and interference (e.g., from the same household outlet). That is, the method requires a skilled operator and a rather strict adherence to certain rules during the measurements.
АМЕА-Р wrote:HRV and other gadgets are not equivalent to or alternatives of ANAS, You as a doctor know it. Diagnosis of metabolic stress the consumption of glucose, in addition to PAT and NEK/of ANAS no device does.
I proceed from the principles of reasonable sufficiency and declared Your purpose of Your device, as instrument for measuring stress in a domestic environment. Freeze Framer HRV and cope well with this task and very easy to use (besides a very small :)). By the way, I'm not a doctor, and physiologist. :?
АМЕА-Р wrote:about Mind mirror iza Your reference - do not argue, the machine is interesting, I'm sure you could do something like the analog better go, and I was even able to do it. The price of 20 thousand rubles can be relevant when the party in 1000 copies, it looks quite attractive, but I doubt that there is at least one person who will agree to refinansirovat this project (multiply the cost (about $ 300) for circulation).
Well, the price may be slightly more :) (MM, for example, cost 3000$, but now not available :?). Currently we have a project that requires quite a large financial investment... in two Years we can revisit this issue. But You already have potential competitors. :)
АМЕА-Р wrote:but... why is it necessary, used there are plenty of beautiful professional certified EEG systems?
For educational purposes - maybe there is (for exorbitant prices), and for specific for which MM has been developed, they are not suitable because they use FFT and are too expensive. However, there on the site all painted in detail. :)<
Last edited by Андрей Патрушев on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:09, edited 1 time in total.

АМЕА-Р

Post by АМЕА-Р » Mon Jun 28, 2010 22:09

Andrew, thank you, explained pretenzii for "stability" is removed))).

Now, in fact: Methodology of ANAS/NEK virtually no drawbacks and difficulties of the EEG, as specially adapted to the Amateur user. The machine itself keeps track of the artifacts, and the network interference for her at all irrelevant... to Use it is quite simple. About the functionality of ANAS - diagnosis of stress is not the only function of the device. This technique is primarily aimed at monitoring and analyzing the activity of different parts of the brain. That is, studying the effect of any factor on the body we can objectively assess the degree of impact on the brain and the brain in General. Moreover, this can be done at short-term effects on the body, online, and to assess the effectiveness of exchange rate exposure, for example - of course a nootropic drugs that just affect cerebral metabolism and cerebral blood flow.
By the way, look on the website of the Patent office the essence of the proposed method - You, as a physiologist should be interesting. http://www.ntpo.com/patents_medicine/me ... e_53.shtml

АМЕА_Р

Post by АМЕА_Р » Mon Jun 28, 2010 22:14

Competitors we almost do not fear - we are not going to produce equipment for the "fast" EEG. Our competitor can only be an OMEGA-metry, but our method has significant differences from omega, the essence of which is protected by the above Patent... and why compete IMHO... to each his own, otherwise it will suffer quality - we improve our equipment for 30 years.

АМЕА-Р

Post by АМЕА-Р » Mon Jun 28, 2010 22:21

About methods of diagnostics of the stress, I can say that of ANAS dealing with stress, developing in the brain, bypassing the evaluation of the autonomic nervous system, adrenaline and other signs... Here's another song, can we say about the degree of development of the pathological state, visualize each stage of the stress until the distress (exhaustion). Recorded with the help of ANAS potentials are correlated, by the way, the immune system of the body, allows you to calculate individual body burden and to avoid disruption of adaptation.

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Post by Андрей Патрушев » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:55

АМЕА_Р wrote:competitor, we almost do not fear - we are not going to produce equipment for the "fast" EEG. Our competitor can only be an OMEGA-metry, but our method has significant differences from omega, the essence of which is protected by the above Patent... and why compete IMHO... to each his own, otherwise it will suffer quality - we improve our equipment for 30 years.
We kind of discussed there the possibility of creating analogue Mind Mirror... :?

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Post by Андрей Патрушев » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:08

АМЕА-Р wrote:by the Way, look on the website of the Patent office the essence of the proposed method - You, as a physiologist should be interesting. http://www.ntpo.com/patents_medicine/me ... e_53.shtml
Thank you! - really interesting.
Can Your camera record the Z-rhythms Aladzhalova? In General, how do You feel about the work Aladzhalova and followers?

АМЕА-Р

Post by АМЕА-Р » Tue Jun 29, 2010 18:19

Andrew, of course, the device of ANAS registers "Aladzhalova" infraslow electrical activity, since in principle is a device for recording slowly changing and constant potentials. Megametre, unlike neuroanatomie (of ANAS/NEC) not cuts effect kGy, being more "dirty" method. It is known that the generator padonou electrical activity are many systems - skin, blood-brain barrier, the vascular wall, and just large neural arrays, whose membranes are in some stage of polarization/depolarization.

Currently ANAS is configured on the recording and analysis of the level of permanent potentials on Fokine-Ponomareva (see the Patent above). It involves the use of saturated R-RA chloride sodium as the working electrolyte for minimization of KGR (not electrophys. gel as in Omega), and the cutoff of the recorded data in the case that the electric skin resistance starts to grow.

Work Aladzhalova, and Shvets, Illinoi etc. at present, already a classic, but, unfortunately, their methods did not lead to the creation of major diagnostic systems, perhaps due to the "inertia" of potential users and the lack of nosological specificity of the recorded potentials.

The work of the Brain Institute of Russian Academy of medical Sciences, leading to the establishment of methods of Neurogenerative, in my opinion brought the topic infraslow electrical activity of a new trend - showing a direct connection between the level of permanent potentials recorded with this technique the acid-alkaline balance of the tissues of the brain. Similar work was carried out in vivo on an open brain of animals when injected into the venous system of the brain hydrochloric acid of constant potential naturally increased. http://neurotek.ru/forum/viewtopic.php? ... f2cdcb7722

This interpretation of the phenomenon of infraslow electrical activity gives an indication of the consumption of glucose and oxygen to the brain tissues, and to assess the condition of the vessels of the brain, deducing the acidic decomposition products of glucose. This technique is now used in clinical practice in many respected hospitals.

Thus, at present there are 2 main view of the nature of the brain infraslow activity with their supporters and opponents in Russia and abroad.

The first hypothesis links the activity with the summation of the membrane potentials of large populations of neurons, the second - with a secondary polarization of the vessel walls of the brain.

I was the first theory seems more convincing. The advantages and disadvantages of both views can talk endlessly, because a second look (Alcalase in particular), is convincing evidence.<

АМЕА-Р

Post by АМЕА-Р » Tue Jun 29, 2010 18:24

Андрей Патрушев wrote:
АМЕА_Р wrote:competitor, we almost do not fear - we are not going to produce equipment for the "fast" EEG. Our competitor can only be an OMEGA-metry, but our method has significant differences from omega, the essence of which is protected by the above Patent... and why compete IMHO... to each his own, otherwise it will suffer quality - we improve our equipment for 30 years.
We kind of discussed there the possibility of creating analogue Mind Mirror... :?
Andrew, I just wanted to say that it is very tempting and technically it is possible to make useful and inexpensive consumer EEG system, and with desired properties and functionality, for example, without Fourier.... However, the development within our team will be unjustified way, you'll have to design from scratch, we just do not pull(((. Here we do what we can, and that the lack of money...

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