Small offtopic.

[Ланцелот]

I have a Board in the nearest time Thai tabernanthe iboga centers

And what is it? Judging by the fact that their 4 pieces, this is clearly not a massage parlor.

[Михаил_]

this has been discussed previously in relation to the therapeutic action of Ibogaine. Some have successfully applied himself. But there in the country there are a number of factors which say that there is this issue worth to wait. Regardless of what you think the institutions themselves.
By the way, I promised someone to answer the question.

[Михаил_]

This seems partially discussed in the thread "panacea" due to the mixing of causal-temporal relations.... in terms of questions and answers in the wrong place and the wrong time and in another topic.

[АКВО]

What about ivaski? So its for treatment use shamans. Give it a try or iboga enough?

[ПрактикОМ]

And today I went for a session of xenon therapy. The feeling is very interesting.

[Михаил_]

probably will provide an opportunity to kenenova arapitsa somewhere in the area of the cost of a procedure in conjunction with a visit to EK (before or after, but not during, or not until the end of the closed EC).

PS interesting sensations from the entire line... of inert gases and their use before those that led to the emergence in the open market xenon were... but was classified by the military.

[ПрактикОМ]

We have the cost of the procedure 1700р.

[Михаил_]

this is a very good value, lower price tag MSK 5T that, in General, clear - liter gas 700-800R, the device damping necessary (150-500k), depreciation of premises and staff and how much profit lay in the process, well, I was modestly more so considered, and as yet the service from the field of rare and elite, then put a price tag and 10. This is one of the reasons why I originally Pipchenko recomendavel - he has at least adequate rate and conditions close to those that like just this topic (well, simply for immersion-study-meditation).

[ПрактикОМ]

And how much time it lasts the procedure? We have a total of 6-7 minutes. A maximum of 10 can extend. And do not exceed the gas concentration above 50%. Say fall asleep then.

[СтАвР]

about concentration I forgot to ask, but it is configured (if maksimmum) 40% xenon
at the time the standard 25-30 minutes, and can negotiate up to 40, peredomnoy person 40 min. was at least
at a cost of 4500 R.
I mean Pipchenko

Using conventional mathematics, it minute of gas is 180 p.
In the Boat, you do?, 243 R.

likely will provide an opportunity to kenenova arapitsa somewhere in the area of the cost of a procedure in conjunction with a visit to EK (before or after, but not during, or not until the end of the closed EC).

I think that first better than the xenon and after EK

After xenon, when "out", just want to lie down a while and meditate so to speak.

And I wonder who the oxygen consumption is large, like Zombies for example, they need obtained a smaller concentration of gas, to go to "the astral plane" IMHO

[ПрактикОМ]

Yes, in ECx. But I think the guy who conducted the procedure said that more than 10 minutes is impossible. I just don't remember why.

[ЗОМБИ]

flipping through the book Skulachev "Membrane energy" and came across a paragraph which States that result is the sharp hypothermia (cold water) is very much similar work in the mitochondria (muscle?) as in severe muscular work. This I mean that all the same it is necessary somehow to lower oxygen consumption, and otherwise go and warm the environment of his carcass -- by the way I get cold very easily after physical activity, i.e. I just do not feel discomfort from drafts and sick... and now the second day I sit at home temperature, drink ASD and do not eat anything
--
by the way, I decided this squeezer to buy http://madeindream.com/sokovyzhimalki/r ... -z710.html
on the tube there is a video, it is very convenient that you can take with you and do not need electricity
--
well, my opinion about to go to the astral plane -- it is better to have the xenon setting in personal use, as well as floating tank, EHP and everything else
but then the sessions are, money will not save enough

[Михаил_]

of course it is and I have the Assembly takes about 1 hour....
well, true, some offices like to let the components of legal persons (IE rolled)....
But that's the problem - the majority of even active people will not do...
There is a free moment, I'll do photos and video... but, like I said, video pipe will do if you look and think a head.

Only here's the thing that probably (I would even say for sure) is to use not only the xenon...
As my friend said, after a mixed session of two inert gases (we have him at home installation concocted with an almost complete range of inert row), after the session "I looked kirlianograms on chronoscope - almost picture perfect aura" he's only three days and spoiled the effect of the specific session (well, plus easy rollup).
However, in terms of the value it changes little (other gases are not expensive) and from the point of view org questions a little more complicated to install + a little more org questions well, or have recommendations, or working the feelies this.

Now the krypton will reach, will be a more complete picture, I'll try to find the time to unsubscribe partly on the subject (totally there very much will be released).

[СтАвР]

I then begin to expect that I questions you ask are already not always necessary
wanted to see if you are doing xenon installation and the idea was that the office put it, wanted to ask asked
the question was whether the description of how to collect, even surface and also here it is the confirmation
and about the effects of different gases
straight finally

[Арго]

Yes, in ECx. But I think the guy who conducted the procedure said that more than 10 minutes is impossible. I just don't remember why.

most likely the duration of the procedure depends on the cost of xenon consumption and cost of the session, limit the time so as not to operate at a loss.
I took the xenon therapy in Moscow, in the "best Hospitals" on Krasnoselskii - the price of 4750 roubles, time is not know exactly 30-40 minutes along with the preparation and consultation with the doctor, in the second session the concentration was 60%, according to the doctor they use during a session up to 4 liters of xenon with a concentration of 70%, but the first sessions focus smaller. the doctor recommends a course of 5 treatments with short breaks, then the overall effect is better.

[Михаил_]

The cost of xenon is about the same everywhere.... plus or minus a bit. (including foreign).
Xenon long came up with (well, more precisely therapy inert gases). With a history of deal - is not clear. I mean there is now a resource for this purpose and meaning.
Articles in Europe, a theme dealt with in the 50s (well, started).
According to our statements - we moved the topic in the 90s.
However, the theme worked very closely (everywhere, not just us) in connection with the search of the correct diluents of oxygen for deep diving. And everywhere it was military issue, but has long ceased to be only her. Rebreather was not invented by now (in fact it is the same closed loop of the absorber).
In the same Thailand in local medicine the theme of therapy (what therapy), inert gases exist, and to some extent developed (well, if they have the specialized units themselves high purity gases and instructions for licensing of such activities).
But there medicine at all developed (you wouldn't know it) very.
I referred to the fact that the market pure inert gases (well, there are also technical needs to use them) it is quite a is formed and the price was stable more or less. Although sometimes there are incidents on them (for the price).
Xenon during the procedure - not absorbed well.... in the body. T/e/ if to control its presence in the cycle - it constantly crashes (the system is supplied with oxygen, because it is spent, carbon dioxide excreted by the absorber is exhaled).
The same Pipchenko conditionally fills 50 + % of my time (really a concentration thing individually, he pours before the advent of the ISS on the personal feeling breathable, while the 50 percent is conventionally liter to 2 liter contour (model 2l breathing bag in the circuit).
And this liter for 20-30 minutes almost all odds in the fabric. T/e/ 2 hours is just 4 liters.
If the best Hospitals are really doing a session with the constant maintenance of concentration it is very good, although I'm frankly not sure (maybe they have a semi-closed circuit and part of the mixture discarded or simply a doctor not in the know)
4 liters for the price of 4750 - very good. (judging by the place they were somehow connected Acomodando - he is also a circus, those retail for almost the price of gas conditional 800R liter). Well equipment and staff time is obviously worth something. Well, plus the ammo cost a bit but still (filter antibacterial personal contour usually put, a number of other consumables, such as CO2 absorber).

About the concentration up to 70% I think - slightly bent. Because 71 there is complete anesthesia (sedated) and the device's accuracy - percentage plus the gas concentration is uniform along the contour slightly. It's not the same story as with conventional General anesthesia (there is almost an immediate exit from it and there are no negative consequences, only the positive), but I don't think they interest him "go", although it may be wrong.
Methodologies 5 sessions a day (course of 5 days) for example recommended (scientifically studied) ACC. the work to obtain long-term remission case of intervertebral hernias by the method of xenotilapia. ACC. a scientific paper has argued that the majority of enrolled in this course for up to six months there was an improvement. In other words, they have come a relaxation of (probably muscle blocks of sleep), work anti-inflammatory and analgesic effect (I suspect that they began to move normally for some time) and the result though not a complete cure, but significant and long remission. Is of articles available in open access podcherpnul.

I believe the same course is nice and in many other cases.

Stavr. I wrote here the outline of the thing is very simple. It is obvious that I myself took (some time ago), what's there to collect something ????? and as I wrote the topic not only medical. In the same sport is used in the sense of divers as the diluent helium and sometimes more complex mixtures with other inert gases. Again available works there is mention of the use of the whole range of inert gases series in experimental diving .... (variable composition mixture).
With the installation of office it's not easy. Formally, it is not clear how this legal field is adjustable. Medical procedures they are obviously under medical direction licensed. However, here the divers breathe and none of their licenses not asked and will not be - the goal is different. Sports and recreation not medicine.
I don't want to date to get a profit, but I want to collect data in another field of interest (which has not been studied of science)
and I want to ask you to use the GDV before and after.
However, you need to write a paper about what it doliwa (sharing together for individuals) and to the formal office has nothing to do - actually it is, since we are talking primarily about the mutual division of expensive gas to pieces together.
well, in the office that probably have to supply a certified circuit or the rebreather ? hihi to accurately could be referred to as "the training of divers"
Anyone with a piece of paper (a competent legal text) will help?
need to withdraw it completely from the medical field and to push in equity plus the training is not related to medeffect therapy (in principle it is in the case of ISS and gas impact the body and mind as when diving for example).<

[СтАвР]

Stavr..

...I have already laid the ears

here is about the xenon http://a-mc.ru/specpredlozhenie-po-ksen ... -amc-2013/
why use who and where, as there on their website there are devices for inhalation of gases
the truth is there is only a description, but still someone would be interested

[Михаил_]

well, there are two manufacturer of medical xenon (the ones that make KSE-med, other medical xenon ) and both say that they are the only and the first.
http://a-mc.ru - atom medical center
http://www.akela.ru

The way medical it is only because of the papers.... but the same divers pour into their rebreather oxygen and helium ... well gostowski technical, and good divers take oxygen purer than the one. that goes for medical institutions.
Now attention is the trick.
Is the Soviet technical specifications or there is a standard for medical oxygen, he's technical(!) with them can be found in the network well, for example
http://www.centrogas.ru/docs/gost_5583_ ... eskij.html
which implies that health requirements are even worse technical (where the first grade is 99.7)
well, think of it as "pure" oxygen purity of xenon to the 4th sign is correlated... there really different types of impurities, since the xenon obtained by distillation of a huge mass of air and harmful...low-concentration impurities may also be concentrated.
Well, in General, the divers trying to take a 1 grade or better grades of 3.5-4.0 (high purity)
http://www.niikm.ru/products/oxygen/
and helium respectively of grade B or grade A
http://www.niikm.ru/products/helium/
Although technical in General (I use it as argon, for tsentrogaz for cash trades delivered to your house and niikma to go and have to pay with SP for Bank transfer)
there is no regulating documents what kind of gas to use for rebreather diving is just not regulated in any way.
ACC and purity "of medstone" in some ways it's more of a fetish (I think) than a real necessity. But with the same helium so as not to patheticity - it is cheap even clean, so it does not spin, although there is even publicly known works so much! well, there is no "anesthesia" but there are effects on health.


here is a film about the Akela and how they "discovered xenon"
both manufacturers sites is almost identical to the "library" - there is a part of the research material mainly because it is for conferences or journal publications - where the main summary data (t/e/ not a Pro is understandable).
Part of the material is not available (the one that the warriors did long before), and part is the disery and other works in Leninka.

PS for the specified Stavrou the link there devices акт1-2 mages and other devices for the production of etomidate - that's the value of these devices only in that they accurately measure the flow rate of xenon (they cost half a million) the sensor in Petrograd purchased separately, cylinders separately.... t/e/ half a million is for the electronic account of the volume of consumption on the display unit. In fact, he considered infection very well on an accurate scale(no additional device)
The weight of a liter 5.5 grams....

Terms devices most probably do not "sarashina" - the citizens, with their Stuckey-packs
though too... if you subtract the cost of the gas analyzer, it turns out that they have tubes-cylinders-reducer 280т

but all this is necessary only for medical centers in fact ... home and life each decides for himself how.
The simplest kit is a wearable version in my purse
http://a-mc.ru/katalog-produkcii/appara ... in-avrora/
here there for the cylinders and tubes plastic 150t - medicine ... so what to do then.... money not for the consumables, not the hardware and it "tricked" the semi-official (for papers in fact) and for the fact that for the average person is difficult and the medical institution have something ready and not "farm".<

[Михаил_]

Exposition of animals in a xenon atmosphere (30% O2-70% Xe ) leads to a decrease in consumption of oxygen, i.e. hypoxia, due to impaired respiratory centers of the mitochondria.

here http://profbeckman.narod.ru/MedMemb.files/medmemb3.pdf (a summary article is quite old, as I understand it).

PS I have a friend who complains that I am deprived of his last pleasure in life xenon after 4 sessions it has ceased to pull smoke

[Константин.]

great effect!

[Михаил_]

For someone like hihi.... well, it is pinned I mean pull was really less, but not Smoking is not a problem, though probably to tie and could have been....
The fact that the trigger mechanisms are very close to those that reset based on when working with maoinhibitors decoctions, for example, and based on the above quotes about mitochondria - clear in General why.

[Михаил_]

Well, by the way of the effects from BJ (especially 21-22 and panacea) is associated in General with almost the same or even virtually the same, although described in BJ somewhat differently, namely as "the original modes at the cellular level. Another question is what is the potential of the body to divert part of the cells in such a regime, contrary to the external controlling program.

[АМТ]

Mish, effect reluctance to smoke sustainable?

[Расторгуев]

This is what I think you can also do this to simplify equipment for the home.Buy the cylinder kit, foot pump,2-3M hose for propane and large rubber balls,they are one meter in diameter are well and then pumped to the xenon half and air the same number (not hard I think to calculate the proportion of air xenon mathematically according to the volume of a sphere by measuring its construction tape) tie the hose to the balloon and breathe it all lying on the bed.

[Михаил_]

This is what I think you can also do this to simplify equipment for the home.Buy the cylinder kit, foot pump,2-3M hose for propane and large rubber balls,they are one meter in diameter are well and then pumped to the xenon half and air the same number (not hard I think to calculate the proportion of air xenon mathematically according to the volume of a sphere by measuring its construction tape) tie the hose to the balloon and breathe it all lying on the bed.

nah not possible
1) why? here to collect the fine You will go along with the gauges 20t well ( with minimal configuration ) and the minimum xenon will cost You (in the tank) well 72 t (can be less, but the price of xenon will increase mercilessly ) and the meaning??????????? travanut and die?
2) I do not understand where does the ball and foot pump... especially.... The xenon is sold only under high pressure!
3) there is a methodology of application, the air does NOT APPLY (the effect of ruin, thrown out money.
3)the ball will create stupid breathing resistance - breathing there and back will not work.
4)without addition of OXYGEN (pure) in a mixture without CO2 absorber it will be a story of 1 breath (or 5) and not on a floor of hour-hour inhalation again thrown xenon (read not use not money).
5) there is a good chance this scheme to get into another world (for example because xenon is heavier than air and can accumulate in the lungs, therefore, at the outlet of the inhalation of oxygen is shown) or just to strong hypoxia. Including because the mixture will have little oxygen and he at each entrance will decrease by approximately 6 percent (enough in the end for 4-5 breaths)
6) I still did not realize that the "hose" to the ball would hold up a part of the mix in itself.
In short it is a costly and stupid way to throw away a lot of money or go to another world.
Morality - without studying the methodology and without technical literacy self-made activity is contraindicated!
such inhalations are always working in high pressure (as in scuba, Ribeiro, medical oxygen circuits, etc.).
No CO2 absorber (called soda lime and sold to divers and doctors) and without the valve system closed loop is to do anything useless! - money thrown
Why take the "ball" when the breathing bag of rubber that physicians (in medinstrumenti) that ebey worth 10-20 dollars for example? and he creates a resistance to exhalation.
Sensor kisloroda in the system of mandatory! as the second person.
And all this is significantly less than the xenon.
Well, the point of the curve of the farm?<