Copying discs with high frequencies

Dimas · Post by **Dimas** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:33

Recopy from the original a couple of CD Patrushev,sound, everything became different and the effect I think no one:(!Why?Them that it is impossible to multiply yourself what is happening there...?

Post by **Андрей Патрушев** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 14:08

Dimas wrote:Recopy from the original a couple of CD Patrushev,sound, everything became different and the effect I think no one:(!Why?Them that it is impossible to multiply yourself what is happening there...?

It's very simple. On the discs recorded information in digital form. At a sampling rate of 44100 and (16 bit depth) for the entire range of 20-20,000 Hz at low frequency we have the maximum number of counts, but the closer to the end of the range, the fewer samples you have on the signal. Imagine a fence made of individual sticks with a wavy envelope on top. So (from a separate "sticks" of different lengths) in the figure is constructed of a sinusoidal curve. Do the math yourself - at the end of the range accounts for only 2.2 of reference. What do You think - is it possible to draw a sine curve (to build a good fence) with just two sticks? Now take the lower limit for high frequencies (conditional) - 5000hz. For a given sample one oscillation accounts for only 8.8 counts. In the best case it is possible to fill approximately one half cycle. Thus, the larger the dataset, the better it is protected against accidental distortion. That is, when a random distortion "fence", where a lot of sticks "will potrivita" or slightly "bury", but its function will be run, and where several rare - happens at all clear what happened.
When copying, it seems, everything has to be transferred one-to-one, but really because of the variations with laser power, it is not entirely stable rotation speed, different quality and heat in the process blanks are accumulated distortion, which are multiplied at times on the copy of a copy dozens of times, on the third copy.
Therefore, for those who are trying to copy (for yourself, of course, otherwise it is copyright violation...) my CDs suggest to reduce distortion at high to select the best quality blanks and write in the lowest possible speed. And if you write a lot at once (heh...), then through the two discs to take a break for 15 minutes to cool the drive.

Good Luck Running!

Post by **Михаил_** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 15:45

Something it sounds weird

When you copy data disks, that is no different from music, any distortion on one bit has never been observed, regardless of the speed. If there are any, then the path fails and cannot be read or hiccups (physical damage to the disk).
Check out this very easy - you can remove at least 10 copies in a row at the fastest speed, then throw the result and the original in the form of the Vav of the file and compare their contents.
Digital format that is different from analog, that does not bear a distortion of THIS kind. Bears for others. Therefore, the same vinyl has recently grown among music lovers in price

Post by **Андрей Патрушев** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 16:20

I used to think so too, until I started this more closely, so to speak, to do. It is easy to check. Grab the 3rd track of the Star Wanderer (with bells) and write at high speed. Even if he doesn't start You have a "hiccup", You'll hear how disgusting they began to rattle the bells.
I tried to ask about this phenomenon professionals both personally and on forums, but all say the same thing as You. And I with my own ears hear it. By the way, pogovoriv with music fans, too, have heard from many that the quality of even the first copy differs from the original.

Pavel · Post by **Pavel** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 16:45

by the Way, pogovoriv with music fans, too, have heard from many that the quality of even the first copy differs from the original.

By the way, having a DVD-recording in WAV format, I make a copy of it with him - it turns out that I have the original sound? And if you want to make a copy of the DVD just in case, no distortion is on the new DVD of the matrix?
Therefore, it is better to buy DVDs because copies of them will always be the original sound?! And will sound clear and without interference?
By the way, this is a good way against piracy, if you replicate audio CDs, the recording efficiency will decrease on the copies!

Post by **Андрей Патрушев** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 17:07

Yeah, You're right, Pavel!

SDen · Post by **SDen** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:14

Sorry, something I tuplyu in the morning

So with DVD's when copying to balwani quality is lost

:

Pavel · Post by **Pavel** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:46

"So with DVD's when copying to balwani quality is lost"

true, but you must first copy the WAV recording (original) DVD-ROM drive on your hard disk, then start recording audio-ROM CD-matrix c using NERO 8 at speed (the low speed on my DVD) - I do like zvuciti all is well

Post by **Михаил_** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 22:09

The fact that the copiers are of low quality on the discs are of low quality and especially at high speed can create bad read disks, it certainly is. Only it's not a problem of numbers of copies, just the problem of the disc.
the audio CD slightly differs from the data drive, which inherently contains information files. If the data drive was "broken" with him it would be impossible to put the program...
It's not the number of copies, and not in the source, and that high-speed recording, cheap "left-wing" blanks and scratches (as well as fingers and other foreign objects) on the disk can damage the original CD.
Of course a copy of him will contain adscititious defects, although it is usually damaged disks and copied normally do not have, because the data they read will not and this will create a read error on the drive.
So I usually try interesting drives I just put "archive". So that scratches and other defects allowed to make a new copy.

Post by **Андрей Кабанков** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 22:25

In the theory all so,but in practice, the quality falls very substantially,especially on disks with audiostrobe signal.It has nothing to do with edenichnyh errors on the disks.

Post by **Андрей Патрушев** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 23:19

The thing is that information, as it should be duplicated for reliability. And on the audio CDs such duplication even more than the data drives. But here is the algorithm of reading this information, apparently this allows you to read and "wrong" clusters together with the "right" (especially if samples a little - see above), so that, indeed, disks with high frequencies of copy should be very carefully.

_Павел_ · Post by **_Павел_** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:56

By the way, a bit on the audio CDs data redundancy is lower than the data drives - there is the accuracy of restoration information is not as significant as for the data.
More details can be read here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM#CD_sector_contents

And then - http://web.ncf.ca/aa571/daefaq.htm you can find how this can be avoided.

Andrew, and the images of Your disks, which after payment you can download from the website www.brainmusic.ru is files from a dvd? I hope not rips made from CDS?

Post by **Андрей Патрушев** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 14:41

Thank you Paul for the links! Live and learn... But the only way to make a good copy. according to the second link. is to by Plextor.

On Gzone can't I download my CDs in any form. After payment You will receive by mail a CD or DVD, depending on the order.

Виктор17 · Post by **Виктор17** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 0:46

After reading this thread, still do NOT understand the following situation:
1. Audio CDs with recordings of sessions need only listen to CD? Or is it possible to copy and pinch them into the ogg format?
2. If allowed compression in ogg format, the audiostrobe signals are lost?
p.s. I'm talking about this format because disks are listening to from your mp3 player, it supports it. First listening session in mp3, and then found in the Internet information about the shortcomings of this format, and converted everything to ogg. Recently bought InnerPulse, and began to use it to listen to CDs at gate

_Павел_ · Post by **_Павел_** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:40

Andrew, strange, but in correspondence with Yugzone with email 5hop@mail.ruI said the following:

"You can download drive Software and 4 albums of Andrei Patrushev: Healing, Guide, Ultramesh, Star traveler."

Just, for me, it was a huge plus, since I do not live in Russia, and in the mail they will go is unknown how much, and would like to start with a Guide.

_Павел_ · Post by **_Павел_** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:45

I think the ogg format in this case will not be saved, according to this review - http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/ogg-vs-lame.shtml OGG at 350 kbit - cutting frequency at 16 kHz. I think in order to play audiostrobe will need a Lossless Audio Codec such as FLAC (http://flac.sourceforge.net) Here - http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware there is even a list of devices that support it. I do not know really how they are spoken, think it is not very. There really is a firmware designed for example iPod to listen to this format, but not all chip until covered. Or just listen through plar able to play WAV, memory really need nemeryannom, but it is now cheaper. The same iPod nano now has 8 GB, and it's 11 discs. Yes, and he plays WAV, judging by the review on www.ixbt.com well, very well.

Post by **Андрей Патрушев** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:54

Well, maybe I do not know everything, but how long will it take to swing such volumes, plus many Russian servers there are limits on the volumes pumped over the border...

Виктор17 · Post by **Виктор17** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 15:48

_Павел_ wrote:I Think the ogg format in this case will not be saved, according to this review - http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/ogg-vs-lame.shtml OGG at 350 kbit - cutting frequency at 16 kHz. I think in order to play audiostrobe will need a Lossless Audio Codec such as FLAC (http://flac.sourceforge.net) Here - http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware there is even a list of devices that support it. I do not know really how they are spoken, think it is not very. There really is a firmware designed for example iPod to listen to this format, but not all chip until covered. Or just listen through plar able to play WAV, memory really need nemeryannom, but it is now cheaper. The same iPod nano now has 8 GB, and it's 11 discs. Yes, and he plays WAV, judging by the review on www.ixbt.com well, very well.

"Posted - may 18, 2001" - I think that's an important time of the writing of this article ixbt.com. The fact that the development of this codec was to continue. At the moment, it supports 12 quality levels -1 to 10. And 10 is the level of quality provided by bitrate 500KB, not 360. What concerns my player, I use the MPIO HD300(40Gb c screw, i.e. place no problems). Problematic with the new firmware the new formats on this player, so you have to work with what is, and podderjivaet he only wma, mp3, ogg, asf(what's this?)

_Павел_ · Post by **_Павел_** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:50

Victor, this is it - http://www.mpio.com/product/productview_hd300.html ?
Something is not clear, supports WAV or not?
By the way, for the sake of interest, and how the files compressed at this bit rate in 500KB?

Виктор17 · Post by **Виктор17** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:32

_Павел_ wrote:Victor, he is http://www.mpio.com/product/productview_hd300.html ?
Something is not clear, supports WAV or not?
By the way, for the sake of interest, and how the files compressed at this bit rate in 500KB?

Yes, it is. Here is a description in Russian: http://mpiocom.ru/goods/product.php?id=30 Just noticed that it indicated support for wav, I have the box it is not written. Just in case, checked to see whether it is wav, but not yet. About the grip: the disc "Explorer" uncompressed -711 MB, encoded with variable bitrate max is 500kB, 320kb average, min-200Kb(roughly average and minimum) obtained 193мБ

_Павел_ · Post by **_Павел_** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 23:55

By the way, on Russian site also provided support WAV. And what firmware is worth? If not updated even once, maybe we should update on the last, maybe only in the latest firmware introduced support for WAV. Otherwise, directly write in techsupport, what it is I your WAV player doesn't play?

Виктор17 · Post by **Виктор17** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:30

Yes, with IOS everything is in order - the last alter. And write nowhere - the site is not specified obrtna connection. We will not continue this topic is not relevant to this forum.

Thank you, Paul, for your participation.

budka · Post by **budka** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:49

The question of a teapot:

On DVD Patrushev compressed into *.wav files.
When I wrote "Explorer" in АудиоCD (NeroBurningRom) to listen on a normal CD-player, looking file format recorded on the disc saw the format *.cda

As it should be? And what can I what not so made...

Виктор17 · Post by **Виктор17** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:09

budka wrote:Question of the kettle:

On DVD Patrushev compressed into *.wav files.
When I wrote "Explorer" in АудиоCD (NeroBurningRom) to listen on a normal CD-player, looking file format recorded on the disc saw the format *.cda

As it should be? And what can I what not so made...

Yes, that's right, you just recorded a project, "Audio CD". If it was necessary to leave the files in wav format, then they had to write as a CD ISO. By the way, on these DVDs the wav format is not compressed.

budka · Post by **budka** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 19:31

I was asked to help a friend to charge my DVD four AudioCD Patrushev.
He disregarded my request about recording at minimum speed and recorded on the average, the maximum.
(although a DVD drive it good)

a question to the colleagues of Andrey and to him personally:

Affected the quality of the sessions? As they say, on the lowest(8x) record. Maybe we should rewrite? Because the high frequency is a delicate matter...

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Copying discs with high frequencies

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