A new idea for DreamStalker

Instrumentsthat will help you to get into a lucid dream
Сергей Владимирович
Posts:30
Joined:Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:39
Location:Смоленск
A new idea for DreamStalker

Post by Сергей Владимирович » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:54

Grimstalker

Hello everyone!

As I understand it, the main problem in making devices for the OS is a false positive due to micromovements of the eyes not related to REM phase, and also due to the displacement of the mask during sleep.
Therefore I propose to create a device consisting of a mask with built-in miniature cameras and illumination in the infrared LEDs. In the sleep period images from cameras will be transferred to the computer via USB. Next, using a specially designed program image the eye will be constantly analyzed and as soon as the REM phase and there will be eye movement, the program analyzes the coordinates of their deviations and will give the command to light or sound signal. Also in the program you can enter test mode in which the program will record images of the eye during, for example, a couple of nights in a video file and note the timing of the REM and its frequency, and determine minimum, maximum and average amplitude deviation of the eyes when driving during the night. This will allow to fine-tune the program settings for a particular person due to the collected and processed statistical data. The problem will be to write such a program, but much simpler the hardware, which will positively affect its value.

Sincerely, S. V.

Евгений Кош
Posts:995
Joined:Sun May 20, 2007 19:11
Location:Тюмень
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by Евгений Кош » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:08

The difficulty is that in Galazov will "Shine" all night located just ten millimeters is the source of infrared radiation.
so it is possible to rip the roof.. and to think then what all happened.

Александр (разработчик)
Posts:813
Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24
Location:Москва
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: New idea for DreamStalker

Post by Александр (разработчик) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 17:50

Сергей Владимирович wrote:hi, everyone! As I understand it, the main problem in making devices for the OS is a false positive due to micromovements of the eyes not related to REM phase, and also due to the displacement of the mask during sleep.
This is not a problem, it has long been fully resolved. During sleep You can take a hand mask to move it around and continue to sleep. False positives will not do.
therefore I propose to create a device consisting of a mask with built-in miniature cameras and illumination in the infrared LEDs. In the sleep period images from cameras will be transferred to the computer via USB. Next, using a specially designed program image the eye will be constantly analyzed and as soon as the REM phase and there will be eye movement, the program analyzes the coordinates of their deviations and will give the command to light or sound signal.


Not worth it sometimes to complicate something that is solved by much simpler methods, so as not to increase needlessly the cost of the final product without improving its consumer properties.
Also, the program can enter a test mode under which the program will record images of the eye during, for example, a couple of nights in a video file and note the timing of the REM and its frequency, and determine minimum, maximum and average amplitude deviation of the eyes when driving during the night. This will allow to fine-tune the program settings for a particular person due to the collected and processed statistical data.


Now in the device DreamStalker statistics of the alarms during the night. Data can be found in the morning on the instrument. Shows the total number of operations and time each operation separately.
the Whole difficulty would be to write such a program, but much simpler the hardware, which will positively affect its value.
It seems that the cost of writing and supporting such a program You not deign to include the cost of the device :shock: . Never thought that the addition of the USB interface device and two video cameras should lower its cost :roll: .<

Александр (разработчик)
Posts:813
Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24
Location:Москва
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Александр (разработчик) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:03

Евгений Кош wrote:the Difficulty is that in Galazov will "Shine" all night located just ten millimeters is the source of infrared radiation.
so it is possible to rip the roof.. and to think then what all happened.
You, our dear Lord and beloved customers! Let's eventually open a school physics textbook and find out once and for all that infrared radiation is a simple heat that is emitted by any heated body :oops: . The led used in the device DreamStalker has a capacity of only 0.002 watts! The power of man cannot even feel how warm it's so small! What kind of treatment can there be? If you are so afraid to be irradiated heat, cut a radiator, drink iced tea, move your wife out on 10 meters... but what to do with your own body, radiating up to 800 watt of heat per day? I do not know. Only to die and remains in order to cool down and escape from the infrared radiation coming from our own body :lol: .

Евгений Кош
Posts:995
Joined:Sun May 20, 2007 19:11
Location:Тюмень
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by Евгений Кош » Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:19

Александр (разработчик) wrote:
Евгений Кош wrote:the Difficulty is that in Galazov will "Shine" all night located just ten millimeters is the source of infrared radiation.
so it is possible to rip the roof.. and to think then what all happened.
You, our dear Lord and beloved customers! Let's eventually open a school physics textbook and find out once and for all that infrared radiation is a simple heat that is emitted by any heated body :oops: . The led used in the device DreamStalker has a capacity of only 0.002 watts! The power of man cannot even feel how warm it's so small! What kind of treatment can there be? If you are so afraid to be irradiated heat, cut a radiator, drink iced tea, move your wife out on 10 meters... but what to do with your own body, radiating up to 800 watt of heat per day? I do not know. Only to die and remains in order to cool down and escape from the infrared radiation coming from our own body :lol: .
It's good that You treat us with love and fatherly respectful :) thank you :)
Opening school textbook physics - you can immediately close it, you know why... and on the forum there are many people who already do know and understand that the physics in the current version as it is (as a science) says a lot in terms of "the wind blows because of the door swing.

And tremere sensors define REM how?

Александр (разработчик)
Posts:813
Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24
Location:Москва
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Александр (разработчик) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:28

Евгений Кош wrote: And tremere sensors define REM how?
The method is highly precise analysis reflected by age of poor heat radiation.

Сергей Владимирович
Posts:30
Joined:Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:39
Location:Смоленск

Post by Сергей Владимирович » Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:15

Hello!

Well, if the problem with the displacement of the mask during sleep, is already solved (just have not followed the events on the forum) then withdrew his proposal on the creation of a new instrument, how stupid and wrong in this case. :shock:

Sincerely, S. V.

Вася

Post by Вася » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:01

Let me ask, and how the offset of the mask to introduce the device into a stupor and false positives?

Александр (разработчик)
Posts:813
Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24
Location:Москва
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Александр (разработчик) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:25

Вася wrote:let me ask, and how the offset of the mask to introduce the device into a stupor and false positives?
Information received from the image sensor is one processing, which eliminated extraneous movement not related to eye movement in the right phase of sleep.

User avatar
Князевский
Posts:304
Joined:Sat Jul 28, 2007 21:12
Location:посёлок "ЗАРЯ"

Post by Князевский » Wed Mar 26, 2008 20:18

that's what I thought.
A. Patrushev wrote, that would be a good voice instruction in the past the stun of signals to be used.
can a MP3 player to embed?
given the feedback from the DS you can go and music to throw (creativity in dreams) and other unresolved issues of the day.
Alexander, You look at it? Or I'm bent :oops: ?
or at least an FM receiver and an external modulator?

Александр (разработчик)
Posts:813
Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24
Location:Москва
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Александр (разработчик) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 16:46

Князевский wrote:that's what I thought.
A. Patrushev wrote, that would be a good voice instruction in the past the stun of signals to be used.
can a MP3 player to embed?
given the feedback from the DS you can go and music to throw (creativity in dreams) and other unresolved issues of the day.
Alexander, You look at it? Or I'm bent :oops: ?
or at least an FM receiver and an external modulator?
Here I see several functions that may well exist in parallel:

1. To allow the user to record a message for playback during output signals of awakening in REM.

2. You can add the function of MP3 player for playback of various music, nature sounds, etc. (before falling asleep) from Sleep-timer that will turn off the music after a set time.

3. The recorder to record the various messages. Maybe someone will be interested to write down their comments about the viewed the dreams that in the morning it was easier to remember what the dreams were.

Have a question that I would like to bring to the discussion. Whether it is convenient, if all these messages will be stored on the card format mini SD card for read and overwrite which you can using any card reader? Messages of the recorder, of course, you can listen to on the instrument.

User avatar
Князевский
Posts:304
Joined:Sat Jul 28, 2007 21:12
Location:посёлок "ЗАРЯ"

Post by Князевский » Thu Mar 27, 2008 18:10

it's great You came up with
it turns out to be two models of the DS?
one standard, the other with pribambasami?
and when it appears?
more expensive will cost?

and the format that is necessary, many bit have a card like this

Йорг

Post by Йорг » Tue May 27, 2008 23:24

Hello,
for a long time watching your forum. The interest is great because with a son of similar device made. You can see here: http://www.dreamguard.eu
The only problem is that everything is in German. Information in English you can download here: http://www.dreamguard.eu/exlu.pdf
The main difference from DreamStalker that there is a constant connection with a computer which records and analyzes eye movement and generates tips. If you have any questions, sudovolstviem answer.
This is not advertising! I just got myself a lot of questions and interest you have discussed.

Кузьма

Post by Кузьма » Wed May 28, 2008 23:06

Йорг wrote: If you have any questions, sudovolstviem answer.
You are going to sell it?

Йорг

Post by Йорг » Thu May 29, 2008 1:01

Кузьма wrote:You are going to sell it?
No. Don't see the point, because there are devices like DreamStalker.
Maybe slightly off topic, but about motivation: the Son's a big fan of the OS, I'm more of a skeptic. Started doing 'kvasar'. Something was flashing, but it is not clear when and why. So invented his own version. Now we see the eye movement and the response of the device determines the komputer. But there are still many questions:
- how does the design of the sensors on the result?
- how to come up with smarter algorithms?
really it's a dream, when work clues?
hints to choose?
etc., etc.

Кузьма

Post by Кузьма » Thu May 29, 2008 2:12

Йорг wrote:
Кузьма wrote:You are going to sell it?
No. Don't see the point, because there are devices like DreamStalker.
Maybe slightly off topic, but about motivation: the Son's a big fan of the OS, I'm more of a skeptic. Started doing 'kvasar'. Something was flashing, but it is not clear when and why.
I also tried kvasar. Works very well and settings are good. Only the sensor is very weak.
Йорг wrote:, So you made up your own version. Now we see the eye movement and the response of the device determines the komputer. But there are still many questions:
- how does the design of the sensors on the result?
- how to come up with smarter algorithms?
really it's a dream, when work clues?
hints to choose?
etc., etc.
These questions are difficult any specific answer without knowing the design of your device and the program.
First, I specifically asked you about whether you intend to sell the device. Maybe because you are not going to use your commercial development, you will show the scheme and program? Then I think it will be possible to give specific advice or suggestions to improve your device.

User avatar
Dimas
Posts:3728
Joined:Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:13
Location:Москва
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by Dimas » Thu May 29, 2008 15:45

Don't see the point in connecting the device to zisteinom block at all.All functions are performed on the device directly...the Only thing that is possible is when the Stalker will appear to player - to upload there music and different sounds....The timer is there,setting there,feeding signals, etc. the Stalker also analyzes the eye movements and sends the hints,but ... WITHOUT connecting to computer!!! :wiz

Йорг

Post by Йорг » Thu May 29, 2008 22:54

Кузьма wrote:you show the schematic and the program?
In principle, all on our website, only a well 'camouflaged' in the German and English text. And so in http://www.dreamguard.eu/exlu.pdf you can find the photo, Bloxham and in Appendix al. a schematic of the device.
For Dimas
Dimas wrote:All functions are performed on the instrument directly...
This document was written and why it is not enough for us javascript:emoticon(':wink:')
Wink
Program to put still early. They are too raw. But the principle of data processing you can see here http://www.dreamguard.eu/exlu.htm if you scroll down a bit. There's an example of recorded curves. The red line is the measurement results. The green line is the type scalasca average. Shows two examples with different parameters. The last figure shows that a local minimum of the green curve trigger (Sinai line). The trigger is the basis for tips that can work delayed or blocked for some time. In the figure, the yellow dots are the triggering cues.
But what is like the movement of the eye during sleep?

Кузьма

Post by Кузьма » Fri May 30, 2008 1:29

Йорг wrote:
Кузьма wrote:you show the schematic and the program?
In principle, all on our website, only a well 'camouflaged' in the German and English text. And so in http://www.dreamguard.eu/exlu.pdf you can find the photo, Bloxham and in Appendix al. a schematic of the device.
I found immediately, but this is not enough. Any recommendations for the algorithm you expect not showing the algorithm? It is necessary to see how it works.
However much is already clear. As I understand it, the chart's vertical axis shows the voltage on the Stainless (the sensor output) depending on time.
How many times per minute(second) the measurements are made?
Йорг wrote:For Dimas
Dimas wrote:All functions are performed on the instrument directly...
This document was written and why it is not enough for us javascript:emoticon(':wink:')
Wink
Program to put still early. They are too raw.
So what? Moreover, let's look together.


Йорг wrote: But the principle of data processing you can see here http://www.dreamguard.eu/exlu.htm if you scroll down a bit. There's an example of recorded curves. The red line is the measurement results.
Measurement of what?
Йорг wrote: Green line is the type scalasca average.
It is now clear. You are already on the path traversed. Moving average is the most obvious and easy solution which unfortunately not too well protected against false positives.

There are a couple of the best ways. :)


Йорг wrote:Shows two examples with different parameters. The last figure shows that a local minimum of the green curve trigger (Sinai line).
It is unclear why the minimum? REM it seems to be at max!?

And why do you use local extrema. How could such a large scatter in the measurements from night to night?
Йорг wrote:the trigger is the basis for tips that can work delayed or blocked for some time. In the figure, the yellow dots are the triggering cues.
But what is like the movement of the eye during sleep?
Like. Was 2 appropriate REM phase at 2:30 and 6:30. At this time it would be more rational to concentrate tips. And not one!
But the other four yellow dots - :( .

And why do you use a PIC-microcontroller? 4 batteries he has on his forehead to hang!!! Hard. Have not tried the AVR?<

Йорг

Post by Йорг » Sat May 31, 2008 2:46

Thanks Kuzma, so that you understand my problem!
Кузьма wrote:How many times per minute(second) the measurements are made?
In the interval of one minute doing one cycle of measurement. The measurement cycle is of 30 measurements with a frequency of approximately 4 Hz.
Кузьма wrote:You are already on the path traversed. Moving average is the most obvious and easy solution
But of course I did and with a simple start. Which method do you offer? Can personal experience there?
Кузьма wrote:do not understand why the minimum?
Results according to the method of 'moving average' is always more or less will be lagging. And I want to catch the beginning of a REM phase. Better I'll put the delay hints. Besides I'm afraid if the maximum take and late fall with a hint at a time when people honey is fast asleep. And to Wake him at this time, probably not very good.
Кузьма wrote:And why do you use local extrema. How could such a large scatter in the measurements from night to night?
There is a variation. Dasha in one night. The person moves and the appliance also alters the situation. Thus, the amplitude of the signal changes. And given a simple processing algorithm, the idea of local minimums worked. But the variation from night to night can also be. Sometimes well seen when a person is asleep as killed or when he slept badly.
Also noticed a difference when switching from the first variant of the device for a second. The geometry of the sensor has changed a bit and the results have become worse since the beginning. So one of my questions was about the sensors.
Кузьма wrote:it Was 2 appropriate REM phase at 2:30 and 6:30. At this time it would be more rational to concentrate tips. And not one!
Was still working on the scheme, the trigger is tripped, wait 5 minutes, tip, block for 60 minutes. Like these REM-phase every 90 minutes again. Therefore, the remaining 4 points can explain...?
Кузьма wrote:why you use a PIC-microcontroller?
Yes, it is historical that happened. PIC can also with a lower voltage to work. And so I wanted to have a supply for reliable communications with the computer via infrared line. What would each position of the head was a contact in the device 3 pairs of receivers and LEDs.<

маххх-а

Post by маххх-а » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:21

1. To allow the user to record a message for playback during output signals of awakening in REM.
I think this feature would be killer as probuzeni would be with ease to enter from BDG,
in phase (astral) using vibrations, phantom movements and heightened visualization studiesa
Wake up a few times during the night, zapisanie on the mini-SD dreamer could pick up
a sound suitable to him (dealing with Wasps for example, I Wake up to bad
the alarm is inaudible and even recorded my voice with one word "phase" is almost always
after which I immediately with the help of vibrations trying to go to the astral plane)
To the brain is not used to the same Wake-up call it needs to be changed
over time, and I think that this feature is necessary

For light signals with time, the brain will cease to react giving them your explanation of what
they're doing in the dream , use them IMHO current in the first 2 months . But for period
you can easily comprehend the vibration and that it is pre-obligatory
order literature on the subject and about the technique of deepening this state.

O myself , if I get into a phase and usually after some time from me
there throws, I easily with the help of vibrations, can as a minimum a couple of times there
to get the record is 8 times Yes experience is only six months, but will learn them easily I assure you.

2. You can add the function of MP3 player for playback of various music, nature sounds, etc. (before falling asleep) from Sleep-timer that will turn off the music after a set time.

3. The recorder to record the various messages. Maybe someone will be interested to write down their comments about the viewed the dreams that in the morning it was easier to remember what the dreams were.
All ostalnoe points come the usual modern phone.

This subject think it is necessary to raise on sites which are closely associated with dreams
Ing of Dreamsit Hackers and so on. If you find support and decide to make it
in reality when can we expect updated DeamStalker and approximate price?[/quote]<

Александр (разработчик)
Posts:813
Joined:Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:24
Location:Москва
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Александр (разработчик) » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:18

маххх-а wrote:If you find support and decide to make it
in reality when can we expect updated DeamStalker and approximate price?
Support my thoughts have already been found azbut when it all come to life, I can not yet say. Quickly not, with the free time is difficult. It will be a new device with a slightly higher price, that is the usual DeamStalker will be produced still . :ay

Павлум

Post by Павлум » Mon Jul 14, 2008 15:02

About the built - in player is a cool idea. Another would be the instrument to add built-in "ears" (directly to the elastic to strap). Better yet make the USB connector and add a cord kit - the experience of pulling up and down the card brings it down...

It would be possible in the complex include a previously recorded map of the same A. Patrushev with written reminders. In General, it still has not tried yet - connect method of the impact of THETA meditation and reminders to light and sound.

Зигмунд

Post by Зигмунд » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:35

I do not know is this difficult to implement, but it is easy to customize grimstalker using the computer, ie Plugged in before bed it via mini USB to my computer launched the utility and all the settings (sensitivity of sensors/volume/response time/ etc) to the mouse drove, very uncomfortable to navigate [du-0] or UtSE and you can normally paint... just to rewrite on a computer, with a schedule the same Number of positives per night and to keep an archive of these data ...

User avatar
Валшебник
Posts:15
Joined:Thu Sep 18, 2008 19:28

Post by Валшебник » Fri Sep 19, 2008 0:53

Sigmund
Great idea. Cool in the mind of the same.

Post Reply