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Hi all! Recently started reading this forum thinking about purchasing a mind machine, but also follow the development of technology Emotiv Epoc -


Like they have already started selling their devices, I write here because it is interesting that promising for the development of consciousness, with mind machine goes stronger effects on the brain, and here on the contrary, trying to train himself but along with it an opportunity to assess progress is much stronger, especially if developers take over the program for this device.

With great interest to hear opinions on this subject of the guests of this forum =)

Flashes
an interesting toy. The question is, why it is needed and what can be developed.

It comes in two versions, in a simple register the activity of the different areas of the brain in full, it is possible to obtain data in the form of electroencephalograms. About how to work with the second idea doesn't even have =), but with a more simple idea is that at least you can train visualize some sort of action, controlled challenge of the emotions.

For example for me the biggest problem in the self-development of people is seen in the absence of clear criteria to check their progress in the chosen direction. And with the help of such devices with the right software, you can track how well learned for example to enter the alpha state, etc. - provided of course that this thing will actually work =)

Flashes
Duck because there are cheaper and just running the analogue for these purposes - "Mental games".

About the Mental game read, also an interesting thing,
similar to The Journey to Wild Divine - http://mindmedia.com/links/fun_and_usef ... games.html .

The description did, but as I understand it (though little), it does not relieve the electroencephalogram, so will not work to measure the frequency of oscillation, coming from the brain.

And there are like about the same with the hat Emotiva around 500$. Yes, the helmet still has a set of libraries for programmers which is easier to write under the device new things. Competitor seems stronger Mental Games, but still just appears on the market, so too early to say what will come of this.

Prices watched here:

http://www.mindmachine.ru/mental_games.htm
http://www.emotiv.com/developers.html

Already sold the device Emotiv - at the price of $299, but only in the USA

Looked at the site already have working programs, games.
Very interesting. I think, years through n-TSAT will dispense with the keyboard and others when communicating with the computer
Unlike the Mental game here is the field for the development of technology is huge, IMHO.

Here's another interesting news: American company Mattel which produces the Barbie doll, began to sell a toy with feedback Mindflex Game website: http://mindflexgames.com/.

Brief information about company:
The number of staff is 26000 people (2005). The company's sales in 2008 amounted to $5,92 billion, net profit — $379,6 million Barbie Doll provide one-third of sales of the Corporation.

The price is very budget - $100 (without shipping), though we must remember that it's just a toy.

But it's a trend, ladies and gentlemen! If such large companies are already starting to master the production of devices for feedback.

Read about EPOCH - obviously they themselves have declassified the fact that one part of the device is a gyro sensor, ie you dergees head in the direction of its intentions and in accordance with it in this direction moves an object on the screen. It's like a simple example pendulum: take a thread hanging on it the nut holding the string in hand and I think the nut must move clockwise and looking through the time it starts moving. The secret of this trick is that internally the intention of makes podelyatsya hand in the right direction. Is and Mantellas based on the same effect?

Good day.
It would be interesting to resume the topic.
Komrad Flashes, not share, what stopped Your choice? Maybe have the results been?
Recently purchased the Emotiv Research SDK (this is the version with access to the raw EEG).
A couple of days testing with Mind WorkStation. 2 weeks trial-period.
While noticeable results are not obtained.
As I understand it, iariw machine users operate on a purely individual way. And feedback still presents a lot of opportunities, for example:
- to determine suitability for a specific person of a specific session and modes
- handling modes/options sessions "on the fly" depending on the state (for example, the same session can be affected differently, depending on the source of the human condition)
- to display the result (what is also important, from novelty of sensations, and sometimes don't know what happens)
Therefore, in the context of the topic it would be interesting to discuss NOT the question - what to choose: Emotiv or iariw-car, and the question is how to achieve the maximum effect in the interaction of these devices. It is clear that the signal receiver from the Emotiv generate in MM no one will ever connect (need USB input, processor and its OS), although that would be a room But a computer interface it would be possible to consider: FOR receiving data from the Emotiv engine, process, decides on the adjustment and filed for MM the control signals via a USB connection. I understand that she's dreaming, and Yes, I read the topic on the development of the Navigator, the idea of control via USB sounded. But science can not push back, and if forward hard, then at least sideways!
It was very interesting to hear the opinion of Andrey Patrushev.

forbidden topics? or nobody cares? X)
Briefly about their experiences with the above program: session "Emotiv - BioOptimization for Frustration Reduction" gives a noticeable effect after 5-6 reps, if you follow the recommendations for use. The effect is expressed in loss of interest to the problem, which previously caused strong emotions. Tried 3 times "Emotiv - Alpha Relaxation". A clear effect was noticed only in the second attempt.

Yes, the theme is kind of left a little, probably so little interesting.
Well, it is not clear on which device You twist session from workstack? just in the ears? or is it in glasses?
just mindmachine significantly more effective than the bare sound (or sound and the screen).
But inside it, the effectiveness varies from model to model and from sessions depends. For a discussion of this to complete the forum profile.
By the way, mindworkers I have here right on this very computer from which I write now, is bought. Bought for very specific applications for use in addition to mindmachine.
i.e. here on the forum are mainly people who have long known the effectiveness of MM, and because to discuss something about - well, not clear like what it is.
All IMHO.
(PS used for many years innerpulse, now I use the Navigator in the family, 5 families use the same and no one did not notice individual inefficiency).
feedback is usually used IMHO as a separate training method. and the feedback time of the session .... well, because the effectiveness of the sessions, though a few individual, but rather, it speaks favor of "exchange" techniques, the effectiveness of the theta sessions will occur only after a long experience with alpha and so on most.
Read the forum - there all is.

Michael_
Given the registration date and the number of messages I understand that You have in the theory and practice of the use of MM experience is a lot more to argue their point of view from this position, You will be easier.
However, your first post in this topic I wrote carefully and Your answer

mindmachine significantly more effective than the bare sound...
..have long known the effectiveness of MM, and because to discuss something about - well, not clear like what is

I am a little puzzled. On the forum (even a cursory view, although I read some topics in detail) are discussed is not something that is "about", but even "quite far" from MM (and often - "not at all related"). And topics related to gathering+analysis of biometrics and discuss devices, similar and fundamentally different in principle there is a certain number. The person concerned will not be difficult to find them by key words, which I did before post here. And in those subjects all participants in the discussion was "clear about what it is", and then suddenly became "not clear". In this case You do use MWS, in which the interaction sessions with the engines well-known brands in the field of the de of the EEG. I have cognitive dissonance! )))
So the words"IMHO" in this case does not give cushioning effect to Your post ) sorry, but it looks like You are against the truth, or tipsy ) and barefoot for You has no meaning. To a person using MM for several years may be no need to check the impact of the MM on the brain, it feels to navigate, but for the beginner who may foolishly choose the wrong settings (intensity, duration etc) the hardware or software automatic can give benefit/preventing harm. Examples? Someone can be quite five minutes of exposure and excess will cause negative, while the other reacts only after 40 minutes, the third will suffer a painful effect on maximum brightness, because a friend gave him the device without the user himself is not told how to use it. In all cases there will be cries of "charlatans, fake Chinese.." and just roughly understand what happens in the mind - calmer already, for example, as paranoid as I am. Everyone is familiar with the point of view "with the brains to be trifled with" and MM potential customers often refuse to use MM it is because "who knows what's in the black box happens." Barefoot gives at least some exposure controls.
Regarding points and in General MM. Yes, I understand that their use would have a greater effect, and Yes, I don't have. After all, if there were separate points, a question about buying a MM would not be standing at least until then, until I played with MWS. But this, after all, is not about that! I can't choose between! Going back to my first post, the presence of interface software control, for example, Navigator with a PC and a basic API might add customers/third party. If you think more broadly, there is no one EEG, it is possible to limit the collection of biometrics to control the M-machine. And then without a PC is not enough.
Straight question: is it worth waiting for that Pathfinder (or next version) will be equipped with such an interface and SOFTWARE? When?
If the question arises, is it beneficial to the producers of Pathfinder, I understand You, not for me to decide.
And I apologize if your message was categorical and/or tipped. Had no such intention.
Sincerely,
Spasitel.
PS I actually wanted.. speed reading I need to master in a short time.. in a manner not dependent on volitional effort ))) teach someone, money not the issue )))<

will throw in my two cents, this theme I did not read carefully, I presume from the title of the topic...

in short, want to buy barefoot, barefoot three: 1.Kamrowski, 2.breath knotted, 3.on pulse, there is in fact a watch with heart rate monitor

Yeah, and even temperature, eye-tracking, accelerometer, capnograph, pulse oximeter... and notorious EEG interface.
And all this directly to the Navigator, that in the Jumble - 2 suitcase with batteries.
Come on, ZOMBIES, the answer is already there.

Yes, the theme is kind of left slightly..
...not clear like it.