Encephalograph
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Neurofeedback is when the computer shows in real time what is changing in the mind under the influence of meditative exercises. It is in the most General terms.
On the other hand, the famous figures of the oscillations generated by the brain masters were in a state of Samadhi and various other altered States - Satori, an out of body experience. Tracking the pattern of their own hesitation and the result of his efforts on the monitor screen, you can quickly find out exactly what meditation efforts are most effective for the desired changes to the drawings oscillations of the brain. You can then concentrate on these efforts, in parallel, constantly checking the computer.
That is how I imagine it. Though perhaps I'm wrong.
On the other hand, the famous figures of the oscillations generated by the brain masters were in a state of Samadhi and various other altered States - Satori, an out of body experience. Tracking the pattern of their own hesitation and the result of his efforts on the monitor screen, you can quickly find out exactly what meditation efforts are most effective for the desired changes to the drawings oscillations of the brain. You can then concentrate on these efforts, in parallel, constantly checking the computer.
That is how I imagine it. Though perhaps I'm wrong.
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Neurofeedback - what is possible in "pure" measurements, try to avoid (when talking about dimension, if usanee - play the "mental game" and you will understand that not all of this vebacom just...Триалект wrote:Neurofeedback is when the computer shows in real time what is changing in the mind under the influence of meditative exercises. It is in the most General terms.
On the other hand, the famous figures of the oscillations generated by the brain masters were in a state of Samadhi and various other altered States - Satori, an out of body experience. Tracking the pattern of their own hesitation and the result of his efforts on the monitor screen, you can quickly find out exactly what meditation efforts are most effective for the desired changes to the drawings oscillations of the brain. You can then concentrate on these efforts, in parallel, constantly checking the computer.
That is how I imagine it. Though perhaps I'm wrong.
Pictures to trace (in the sense of signals in the time domain) is a thankless task.. seasoned "decoders" of the EEG argue that they're something you know, a private doctor-a neurologist - as a rule no, not even thestreets to admit it (if you push) - where to us? Another thing to watch (and record, etc.) on the frequency distribution of harmonics in the EEG, in time. BUT. Experience shows that see that and so can dig in the Internet - with all sorts of variations, but (I doctor agreed, and once at about 5 this - just like with MM with MM points).
In General, it is for consideration, most likely to my own.
And you - please don't drop the subject, write what you see, okay?
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Went.
The topic is complicated. I agree with Alexander, this instrument is bomb, I would even say, a thermonuclear bomb. Powerful effects, do nothing, sit down, watch the screen, listen as the computer cheeps, and the brain at this time pumps up your muscles like on steroids. After twenty minutes of training, feel very different. I was there alone for 10 minutes heavy hangover removed. This device was awakened by the man 10 years in a coma. In one session removed migraines, stuttering. Six months of weekly classes of boys 12 years old - full of losers - made the round honors.
BUT!
To operate the device VERY difficult and very dangerous. You need to know exactly what you're doing, where some electrodes are set, which prescribe the settings in the software. These settings much, and to hurt this device a breeze. And seriously, so that the device will never help, and no one knows how to treat such people. Now the West is being very intense clinical research, has opened up a whole new universe in terms of features, extremely effective impact on various regions of the brain with amazing results. In Russia this technology is virtually unknown, the only person who understands is Petersburger Yury Kropotov, but it is in Norway working. And is not this technology in Russia to import, immediately all kinds of Amateurs will begin to maim people, and then say that it was. The result is a great idea will be discredited.
Without prior (and very thorough!) learning to work with the device impossible. Literally everything in the area is still in the experimental stage. How dangerous this work shows the fact that the pioneer of this technology Anne Weiss sitting for several years in a wheelchair with a brain tumor.
The topic is complicated. I agree with Alexander, this instrument is bomb, I would even say, a thermonuclear bomb. Powerful effects, do nothing, sit down, watch the screen, listen as the computer cheeps, and the brain at this time pumps up your muscles like on steroids. After twenty minutes of training, feel very different. I was there alone for 10 minutes heavy hangover removed. This device was awakened by the man 10 years in a coma. In one session removed migraines, stuttering. Six months of weekly classes of boys 12 years old - full of losers - made the round honors.
BUT!
To operate the device VERY difficult and very dangerous. You need to know exactly what you're doing, where some electrodes are set, which prescribe the settings in the software. These settings much, and to hurt this device a breeze. And seriously, so that the device will never help, and no one knows how to treat such people. Now the West is being very intense clinical research, has opened up a whole new universe in terms of features, extremely effective impact on various regions of the brain with amazing results. In Russia this technology is virtually unknown, the only person who understands is Petersburger Yury Kropotov, but it is in Norway working. And is not this technology in Russia to import, immediately all kinds of Amateurs will begin to maim people, and then say that it was. The result is a great idea will be discredited.
Without prior (and very thorough!) learning to work with the device impossible. Literally everything in the area is still in the experimental stage. How dangerous this work shows the fact that the pioneer of this technology Anne Weiss sitting for several years in a wheelchair with a brain tumor.
Last edited by Триалект on Mon Apr 06, 2009 17:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Логик
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Триалект wrote: and not the technology in Russia to import, immediately all kinds of Amateurs will begin to maim people, and then say that it was.
And that Russia is some sort of a special country? Rogues everywhere. Including in medicine. Or that the Germans well, the Russian death?
Will be reliable, useful info - will look no worse than other countries.And on account of the danger - sharp knife is also potentially dangerous, but stupid to use none.
I wish successes in mastering. Don't forget to share here with the results.
Last edited by Логик on Mon Apr 06, 2009 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
I understand the principle of operation. I was mistaken in thinking that I will manage using the device the process of meditation, with meditation, this device is not working. Do not need to do anything, the brain reacts to promote themselves, without affecting consciousness. That is ALL brain training is on a subconscious level. The maximum that you can feel is what you it is pleasant or unpleasant, and and say something really not that pleasant or unpleasant. There is formed a shorted circuit: oscillations of neurons - the signal on the signal perception eyes/ears - oscillations of the neurons. It is almost instantly used huge neural clusters coming into a state of resonant oscillation. Therefore ordered the various regions of the brain that is the brain for the first time in my life understands HOW he needs to work.
I decided to take the training therapist to get the right treatment of people. This course lasts two years. Parallel to it I will go to seminars for work with this device. If not banned for offtopic, I will unsubscribe here.
I decided to take the training therapist to get the right treatment of people. This course lasts two years. Parallel to it I will go to seminars for work with this device. If not banned for offtopic, I will unsubscribe here.
So, use only for medical purposes? Sorry.First and foremost, Yes, for medical purposes. But how do you want to differentiate medical from non-medical purpose? Here is a man dissatisfied with his life, and he because of this depression, insomnia, memory lapses..... It is a medical purpose or not?
In fact, this device is downright destiny as we seek revival.
Nevertheless, I'm not going to advise anyone of the Russians to buy it. Perhaps there is some subconscious role in my selfishness, I can not judge. On a conscious level I just know that none of you, including neurologists in the profession won't work correctly without going through special training. At the workshop, where I was, was professional and neurologists, and they sat there, mouths Agape, for them it was all brand new. Any attempts to experiment at random will lead to serious consequences. And training that nobody in Russia offers. In Germany it was hard to find a specialist. All the experts on this technology work in the States or in England. And training workshops in this area are very expensive and not always available for non-doctors. That is, either these need to be addressed professionally, or better not to touch.
In fact, this device is downright destiny as we seek revival.
Nevertheless, I'm not going to advise anyone of the Russians to buy it. Perhaps there is some subconscious role in my selfishness, I can not judge. On a conscious level I just know that none of you, including neurologists in the profession won't work correctly without going through special training. At the workshop, where I was, was professional and neurologists, and they sat there, mouths Agape, for them it was all brand new. Any attempts to experiment at random will lead to serious consequences. And training that nobody in Russia offers. In Germany it was hard to find a specialist. All the experts on this technology work in the States or in England. And training workshops in this area are very expensive and not always available for non-doctors. That is, either these need to be addressed professionally, or better not to touch.
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Логик
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For me no. I with chronic deprecia have done it without the biofeedback devices, mind machines, etc. And God forbid me, without any doctors. And all what I want...Триалект wrote:Here is a man dissatisfied with his life, and he because of this depression, insomnia, memory lapses..... It is a medical purpose or not?
Worked a week or two, will share impressions.
The most simple - work with one channel. It uses three cables, one for each ear (one to ground, the second reference) and one active at a particular point of the scalp. Points on the scalp are determined by the 10-20 system who do not know what it is - Google rules. Aunt Klein gave us at the seminar two reports and said that here, you can practice, then share your impressions. One of the protocols she called "focus", when the active electrode is placed on C4 or Сz, the second "alert", the active electrode at C3. "Focus" beta trains the top down and the bottom - up, in addition, theta down. "Alert" can't remember what trains I worked with him two times. it doesn't matter.
Electrodes are placed on the special pasta, it is adhesive, and the electrodes stick. But with the ears was unpleasant. On lobe electrodes do not stick fall, and the clothespins I had, had to order extra. As they walked, I put the electrodes on the bone behind the ear. Naman, just take longer. Nothing recently came clothespins, life is better and more fun.
Placing the electrodes, start the player, it is there, the program really worth the extra 200 Euro. In the player all sorts of eye-pleasing of videosequence, I chose a flight through Grand Canyon. If the brain executes the Protocol parameters, videosequence moving if not stopped. The video extras include audio signals. When the parameters are reached, you can hear a sort of clap their hands.
Thus the brain knows what points he "vibrates" properly. In a matter of minutes there is a resonance effect, the amplitude of the frequencies that are set on growth, begins to grow and decrease, respectively, to fall. In this manner, and is the setting of the brain. In the long term is the creation of a sustainable template "awakened mind" by Anna wise, well, there up to enlightenment just as I think myself.
To begin with, I on the first day put the electrodes as for the "focus" and the Protocol included "alert". In the fifth minute I fell asleep, it was impossible to resist. Barely dosidela until the end of the session (20 minutes), then discovered my mistake. Immediately started the correct Protocol is - "focus" - and the sleepiness instantly disappeared.
After the training, the feeling is different. Training is not always ideal - often the electrodes atlasusa. Also still spring, and I'm with April to June can breathe only by mouth - to pollen Allergy. That is, the conditions are not ideal.
After the normal sessions, a sense of integrity, impregnable peace, but trained in recent months, the sense of mental presence began to fade, and the inner dialogue has intensified. I complained to aunt Klein, but she says she doesn't need to change anything, until you need to do these two protocols to, as she put it, "to stabilize." In General, they first get the patient "the common denominator", and then look at the circumstances.
Took to this device another brain tester, www.eegexpert.com the machine is called QIK. It tests reaction test is also 20 minutes, then loaded into the computer, and from there to the site. The website analyzes the test and gives a report - what is good and what is bad. The report is clearly seen as a person "ticks". You can run a few tests with Atlantis, the picture is quite clear.
In two weeks we will be with Frau Klein online session, I will share what comes of it.<
The most simple - work with one channel. It uses three cables, one for each ear (one to ground, the second reference) and one active at a particular point of the scalp. Points on the scalp are determined by the 10-20 system who do not know what it is - Google rules. Aunt Klein gave us at the seminar two reports and said that here, you can practice, then share your impressions. One of the protocols she called "focus", when the active electrode is placed on C4 or Сz, the second "alert", the active electrode at C3. "Focus" beta trains the top down and the bottom - up, in addition, theta down. "Alert" can't remember what trains I worked with him two times. it doesn't matter.
Electrodes are placed on the special pasta, it is adhesive, and the electrodes stick. But with the ears was unpleasant. On lobe electrodes do not stick fall, and the clothespins I had, had to order extra. As they walked, I put the electrodes on the bone behind the ear. Naman, just take longer. Nothing recently came clothespins, life is better and more fun.
Placing the electrodes, start the player, it is there, the program really worth the extra 200 Euro. In the player all sorts of eye-pleasing of videosequence, I chose a flight through Grand Canyon. If the brain executes the Protocol parameters, videosequence moving if not stopped. The video extras include audio signals. When the parameters are reached, you can hear a sort of clap their hands.
Thus the brain knows what points he "vibrates" properly. In a matter of minutes there is a resonance effect, the amplitude of the frequencies that are set on growth, begins to grow and decrease, respectively, to fall. In this manner, and is the setting of the brain. In the long term is the creation of a sustainable template "awakened mind" by Anna wise, well, there up to enlightenment just as I think myself.
To begin with, I on the first day put the electrodes as for the "focus" and the Protocol included "alert". In the fifth minute I fell asleep, it was impossible to resist. Barely dosidela until the end of the session (20 minutes), then discovered my mistake. Immediately started the correct Protocol is - "focus" - and the sleepiness instantly disappeared.
After the training, the feeling is different. Training is not always ideal - often the electrodes atlasusa. Also still spring, and I'm with April to June can breathe only by mouth - to pollen Allergy. That is, the conditions are not ideal.
After the normal sessions, a sense of integrity, impregnable peace, but trained in recent months, the sense of mental presence began to fade, and the inner dialogue has intensified. I complained to aunt Klein, but she says she doesn't need to change anything, until you need to do these two protocols to, as she put it, "to stabilize." In General, they first get the patient "the common denominator", and then look at the circumstances.
Took to this device another brain tester, www.eegexpert.com the machine is called QIK. It tests reaction test is also 20 minutes, then loaded into the computer, and from there to the site. The website analyzes the test and gives a report - what is good and what is bad. The report is clearly seen as a person "ticks". You can run a few tests with Atlantis, the picture is quite clear.
In two weeks we will be with Frau Klein online session, I will share what comes of it.<
Had a session with Frau Klein. Slightly changed settings, outlined the types of sessions in the near future.
Prior TO this session, almost every time, when I started to work with the device for a few minutes, he wanted to sleep impossible. Now I as a stimulator connected to the device DVD-player. So if my brain does a bear me the criteria on frequencies and amplitudes, I see the picture and hear the sound, that is, we can watch the movie. When the brain does not reach the specified parameters, the picture begins to darken softly, and the sound is becoming quieter and quieter, down to zero.
It changed the whole process!
Consciousness does not have to be distracted by some settings, it is completely absorbed by the film. And the subconscious mind is occupied so that the mind received their food, the picture and sound. Thus, there are ideal conditions for brain training on specified frequencies when the conscious and subconscious do not interfere with each other.
Subjective sensations: not even close, no sleepiness, the process is a pleasure, expanding the perception of what is happening, I see and hear not only what is happening on the screen, but without the mental effort realize its adjacent region. What is happening with me, I would call the word "stabilization" - mental, emotional. There was a steady sense of joy. Don't know whether this is due to Atlantis, listening to the Conductor in the last two weeks (3 times a year), regular meditations for Anna Weis or reading Osho. Probably each factor brings something different.
In the next month I will work out three sessions of "focus" on the right hemisphere, the "alert" on the left, and Mrs. Klein gave a two-session, simultaneously on both hemispheres - it will also work. I think somewhere in August to order a another joint session, already enough by August to "stabilize", I think...
There is a book sue Ottmar location of the electrodes on the head and their combination with different sessions. But this book is over a hundred green and say, for my purposes is not very suitable. They all focus on the treatment, and to me it is necessary High Performance...
And still waiting for the next seminar Frau Klein, I really want to know more. The most interesting thing, I tell you!<
Prior TO this session, almost every time, when I started to work with the device for a few minutes, he wanted to sleep impossible. Now I as a stimulator connected to the device DVD-player. So if my brain does a bear me the criteria on frequencies and amplitudes, I see the picture and hear the sound, that is, we can watch the movie. When the brain does not reach the specified parameters, the picture begins to darken softly, and the sound is becoming quieter and quieter, down to zero.
It changed the whole process!
Consciousness does not have to be distracted by some settings, it is completely absorbed by the film. And the subconscious mind is occupied so that the mind received their food, the picture and sound. Thus, there are ideal conditions for brain training on specified frequencies when the conscious and subconscious do not interfere with each other.
Subjective sensations: not even close, no sleepiness, the process is a pleasure, expanding the perception of what is happening, I see and hear not only what is happening on the screen, but without the mental effort realize its adjacent region. What is happening with me, I would call the word "stabilization" - mental, emotional. There was a steady sense of joy. Don't know whether this is due to Atlantis, listening to the Conductor in the last two weeks (3 times a year), regular meditations for Anna Weis or reading Osho. Probably each factor brings something different.
In the next month I will work out three sessions of "focus" on the right hemisphere, the "alert" on the left, and Mrs. Klein gave a two-session, simultaneously on both hemispheres - it will also work. I think somewhere in August to order a another joint session, already enough by August to "stabilize", I think...
There is a book sue Ottmar location of the electrodes on the head and their combination with different sessions. But this book is over a hundred green and say, for my purposes is not very suitable. They all focus on the treatment, and to me it is necessary High Performance...
And still waiting for the next seminar Frau Klein, I really want to know more. The most interesting thing, I tell you!<
Here I am. Nothing to report yet. Work with older protocols, the picture frequency of the brain is very ordered, everything happens extremely smoothly, I would schedule posted here if you could, you could see it. Subjectively feel very balanced. The ideal perception. But nothing extraordinary, a normal human life, except try to remember oneself according to Gurdjieff. Do not drink for two years already, non-smoker 13 years, 7 months have not eaten meat, the woman next to. Maybe this whole mystery?
All want to receive from Frau Klein, the Protocol on the reduction of beta activity to train mental silence, but that's not going to write to her. She was too busy for me protocols for free to make it, apparently, not with his hands. Started by Wasps again, the second time I read Laberge, record dreams, setting yourself give, think when falling asleep, but the Wasps did not want to happen. Although this is, sorry, different topic.
All want to receive from Frau Klein, the Protocol on the reduction of beta activity to train mental silence, but that's not going to write to her. She was too busy for me protocols for free to make it, apparently, not with his hands. Started by Wasps again, the second time I read Laberge, record dreams, setting yourself give, think when falling asleep, but the Wasps did not want to happen. Although this is, sorry, different topic.
That's it that... And miraculous results like attention, remembering, understanding and applying in real life the acquired skills. Trivial problem - learn a foreign language - read the text... the word is unfamiliar, look in the dictionary, read the other text again, I see that word and remember looking for it in the dictionary, but what it means can't remember. It's a shame, Yes? I want to be smart 
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Тапка ( под гостем)))
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Кирьянова Виктория
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Such a system long-established and implemented in several versions. For example, in the BOS to restore vision this system works on EEG, and controls the DVD player, which blurs the picture the care and attention and makes it clear when you restore attention. There is an easier option on the GSR. RAG on his forehead in contrast to RAG on your toes depends largely on the level of attention, and not the degree of relaxation...Кирьянова Виктория wrote:please help,don't know where to turn.
There is a task : "to develop an information system that tracks the student's attention in class."
I think that this can be done by using EEG,it is possible for the rhythms of brain activity,but is my guess only)))
if who knows-help
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Кирьянова Виктория
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if you teach,you should know that the attention a normal person may not be constantly chained to a single,even overarching,subject.the brain one is distracted.natural protective reaction of the body to overload.after 2 hours the ability to care falls by 50%Кирьянова Виктория wrote:Got task : "to develop an information system that tracks the student's attention in class."
otherwise,you may get an appreciative audience with podplavlenie brains .then,the students play with toys and not listening to lectures for a reason 
it is a kind of natural selection .the strongest will survive...and unfit initially, the slag will be eliminated.-
Кирьянова Виктория
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I don't teach)I'm just learning
this job gave me the teacher,it is not called an example of such a system,and to tell in what way you can track the attention.
if EEG how,if at GSR how?
we have the MRI as to highlight those areas that are responsible for the activation of attention
(I assume it's those areas where increases beta-rhythm)
this job gave me the teacher,it is not called an example of such a system,and to tell in what way you can track the attention.
if EEG how,if at GSR how?
we have the MRI as to highlight those areas that are responsible for the activation of attention
(I assume it's those areas where increases beta-rhythm)
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Андрей Патрушев
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Too few boundary conditions indicated...Кирьянова Виктория wrote:I don't teach)I'm just learning
this job gave me the teacher,it is not called an example of such a system,and to tell in what way you can track the attention.
if EEG how,if at GSR how?
we have the MRI as to highlight those areas that are responsible for the activation of attention
(I assume it's those areas where increases beta-rhythm)
I, as a teacher with experience, I can say that this is not a problem for the teacher - everything is perfectly clear and audible, even to a large audience.