The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

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Тимур М.
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The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 17:31

I learned about this writer and the book is very long, from Michael (read his article about Time for another anastasiaclub.ru). Michael said that the Mentor Norbekova gave this book, saying that it describes the world as it is. Three times re-reading both volumes (for 5 books), and the other read by this author. In the end Roger Zelazny is my favorite writer. All trying to solve, to understand this book the Chronicles of amber (HA), lot realized lot of things are not quite :) . I like how the heroes work with the fabric of space, with time, with reflections. Manage. And Roger Zelazny is not just probably wrote this book.
After I saw a video where Norbekov says that the book describes 9T principles of moving in space (9T princes of amber). Then we calculate :) :

1. The movement of the reflections (parallel worlds or variants) projecting a conscious intention the appearance of something on the Road. It should be required to be in motion.
(Characters are always on horseback, car or ship, once even just Jogging. )

As Zelazny describes it, for example moving in a certain world, the hero mentally is ahead something to appear, or to change something (the sky, the soil, air) in the framework of its desires and intentions.

Broadcasts its intention to the world and it's changing, although I no longer think it translates but not in the world, and something on what this world is based. As RJ wrote: they don't change the world and move from one to the other. Although the long stay of the hero in one reflection, unwittingly change it anyway))).

There is much more to add that I think, but I'll be brief, then

2. In this way Michael himself realized in the Deck Dvorkin, don't use it, the Lite version did, but did not understand. And in the book, is described as: there are maps, and they can paint any, but the work will be the one who understands what he's doing.

For a start I will say (for those who have not read) the book describes the Labyrinth (the pattern), passing through it, the native blood Dvorkin+Unicorn (their blood descendants) acquired the ability to move through the reflections. This Pattern was zapechatlena in their minds. Now, describe how to draw working maps in these works:

One brother Oberon, I don't remember the name, drawing first the Pattern on the map, causing the map acquired certain properties, and after, above is an image of who would like to create a contact, well, or places where you want to go. Dvorkin painted just holding in mind the image of the Labyrinth (Pattern), and any drawing made on any subject, receive the properties of the card Deck Dvorkin.
How did the connection: it was necessary to look at the image, until it came to life.

3. Passing Through The Maze. And wishing in the center (the end point) where you want to move the Maze itself will move.

4. Having the subject of some of the world holding it in your hand or simply if it is in your pocket, you need to go not much without thinking and fall into this world where this stone. But it was only with blue stones from Blue caves. With other simple rocks, I don't know what effect it has.

5. Using machine Merlin (but it seems to me the exception)

6. Becoming a man card. Through a certain ritual in the tower of the 4 worlds. (possibly confusing title, sorry for this long already read the book, but anyone reading must understand)

You don't even know if you know, please write, and that Norbekov 9T tells. Ito I all 6 not sure, since many exceptions.

But if we analyze all these cases (except stone and machine Merlin (4,5)) then everywhere there is a Labyrinth Pattern. And (1,2,3,6) maybe you can combine into one. As the 1st method, the movement in motion by a stream that I want to see "around the corner", can be described as work cards, namely, the hero is what he wants, like draws a map in the mind, concentrates and steps into a new world :).
And the Pattern it carries. As I passed through the Maze or the Logrus ( in the book you write that, you can move without it, but harder and cherevato not return)

Logrus - law is already in Chaos, the opposite of the Maze in amber (right).

It turns out the hero creates a variety of cards in the mind, while it is passing through the Maze, bears a clear Pattern, and steps through them. And it turns out that it is possible to unite all in one way.
But then where are the others?

For me, this topic is extremely interesting, not only the displacement but also by such descriptions as RJ was dostaval Merlin, using Logrus of the worlds what he needs :wiz weaving their hands in a pattern, Logrus, and extending it through reflection, until he found what he needed :) .

Who cares, write your assumptions, you know what this forum is really not the ordinary people gathered :) and very interesting to me your opinion.

-----------
Sorry, for writing style, slightly corrected to make clearer to read :)<
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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 18:17

And all of this is easily projected onto our world. The same method of visualization of goals, to live like you are already there where you want that ultimately leads you there. But does not always work, partly from the fact that the internal forces is not enough, and move far away :) . Or just the path and not the target, the subconscious is in conflict with the desire of consciousness. Like, I don't want there, and will not use his magical powers to do this :) . Although if you have a large internal force is probably not a problem.

Realizing this become the Creator of your life and look at the world in a different way.

But this is not important, RJ has described many different "fantastic" techniques exactly as they really are. This is not just a fiction writer. About moving within the same world and the same person (for example, the same visualization people have improved their situation, found the work he wanted, his girlfriend, and so on) says a lot, but RJ wrote wider. That at the bottom, then top. Just the mechanisms are the same. In General I wanted to touch on the subject here, not just travel in the middle branches, and movements in the worlds, about which wrote RJ.

Although I about all with this bias it will be interesting :) .

But as it is written in RJ's reflections could easily be moved are just Amberite (descendants of Dworkin) or haosity (Lords of Chaos), and only those who passed the Maze. So I really wonder what kind of Labyrinth is this, if projected on our world. Reflection - clear, the meaning of travel is clear (described by many, such as Zeland), but the Maze or the Logrus.

I would like to pass it :) . But in General even used to know what is actually

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 18:27

The descriptions of the Bracelets of Life Michael mentioned this Maze

"the Bangles version 2.5 and higher are made on the basis of already processed material (version 2.0) by applying a laser treatment on each link and subsequent coating of the link of the specific composition.
Applied pattern carries the above-mentioned resonances in the form of a graphical display (the closest analogy shaped the figure of the labyrinth ember from Zelazny). Managed to find an interesting dependence of the properties on the method of application of laser engraving and materials."


So figure on bracelets 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.8 there is an analogue of this Maze of amber in our world?

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by мячик » Mon Mar 18, 2013 18:52

Thanks for the topic,I read at the time, earlier it Roger's book,it is a pity that he hasn't got forty-three for example,his later work a little bit later to read.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 19:48

To me, this topic is very interesting :) Also read not all. From what I have read, except HA, loved it: Create Light, Create darkness; Jack of shadows; Tampered with; Dilvish cursed and Enchanted land.

And RJ everywhere describes the world differently, well, it's understandable :) not all are about some reflection to write.

For example, in Spoofed and Obsessed with magic (one cycle), it is moving the worlds describes as a movement along the luminous Road, linking branches and if you look back in the haze you can see the world that is there, and if you go on it to be there. In this book, it says that if from one world to pick a person and move in the 2nd. Then from the 2nd you need to pick a person and move in on the 1st, so the balance is not broken.

In HA does not. And the magic there (Pomeneny, Obsessed with magic) is described as weaving knots of power lines. Who sees a magician.

But the movement between the worlds as the road described by RJ and even in Road Signs (and not read), Dark journey (there's little wrong, but the girl laid on the ground out of twigs just this way, but in the end remained the hero to enter into a fog and come out at the end point)

By the way about the fog and Michael wrote more than once. For example, warn a matrix Panacea figuratively to lay on a real thick fog, because you can go somewhere where not told :? :) .

I understand how and Amberites or haositov not passing through the Maze or Logrus beware to walk on the reflections (shadows). Again, I'm talking about the Maze :) .

Here in the Chronicles of amber is different is the movement through the worlds, there is no fog, more like a visualization. And very applicable in everyday life. But still my feeling that the movement in the more distant worlds probably so.

Move like the pestilence went on the Road to Badmintom, it seems to me a complicated way, and use it from a misunderstanding to use a different, more simple and natural, which I think is in HA, just do not understand even how it operates at a radically different branches, and move between them)

My mind dreams. When we sleep we are in completely different worlds, maybe a little similar to ours. And they seem to us natural. So here is a very interesting move in similar worlds.

I once had a dream, or rather it was a lucid dream or out of body. I was standing in my bedroom in front of the door out of the room. Around dark. Well like I just got out of bed and stood in front of this door. But I knew that my body was lying behind me snoring :) . I think let me pass through the door and walk around the apartment. Starting to get in the door, but there is already light as a glowing hazy spot, I will move on. And I feel that my room is behind to become small-small, and the world in which I have just been back and disappears, but has not yet disappeared until the end :) .

Ahead of you begin to see elements of the city. A bright Sunny day. Landscape on new York street is like. And understand that, you begin to realize that where you're going :shock: . I know myself very well, I know that I need something specific to do, I have some business. Even your life remember, not only this morning, but I have a younger sister (in real life my older sister), she moved into a new apartment and she is there with something to help. Even the appearance of a bit of her still remembered that memory affected.

A night in a real apartment slowly begins to be forgotten, but I still remember it. Like the image of the world where I sleep was reduced to matchbox and stay behind me. Very similar to the description of the RJ movement through the map.

In the end, I decided not to go anywhere, and go back, take a step back, the world where I sleep increases, and one decreases and disappears.
And I Wake up :) . But the memory of that world remained as I was still connected to his world, I guess. But I knew that if I step forward now, you old I do forget. And I will live as if nothing had happened there. I mean to sleep to Wake up :) .

Maybe that's why Michael and warns, and if the newcomer to step into another world, you can forget your completely.

But this is my assumption.<

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 20:19

Generally Roger Zelazny genius creates images. For example, surprised me in the loop about Dilvish Damned, at the end of the first book he puts the belt and begins to see another dimension or another plan. Well if we could wear something to see spirits, entities, thought forms etc. And RJ has described is called Enchanted land. And wearing the magic belt you start to see this Charmed land, and it's the same, and thus also to influence you and you are on it :) . And the second book of this series about Dilvish, is called Enchanted land. But there is not about this.

Although it may just not think about it :?

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Mon Mar 18, 2013 20:58

How to use this practically.
No wonder the Coach advised Norbekova HA. And Zelazny is not just a writer.
If in Chronicle of amber all described as it is in the real world that can be identified?

In General from the HA RJ, and books by John Gregory Betancourt the dawn of amber, writing drafts RJ, it is possible to allocate basis. 2E and that some forces of the Serpent and the Unicorn, metaphysical creation, polarized, and fighting with each other. For a Snake struggling haosity battling Amberite, who act under the banner Edinoroga. Yes it is possible within this universe, this double pole (single pole Chaos, the other Order) the inhabitants of the worlds think that there is a struggle to win, at a higher order, it looks like just a game. Oberon actually was on the Board a race. Where he played a completely different game. And the universe is "Chaos-Order" was only one field on the chessboard of their game.

But in the universe of Chaos-the Order of active forces, giving opportunities to travel and search and retrieve items from any reflection (shadows) within it are a Maze of amber and the Logrus of Chaos. A pattern, a manifestation of a Unicorn and a Snake in this universe, I don't know what it is, do not undertake to say exactly :) . But that is the source of power. What is it in our world, as I wrote, I don't know.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Михаил_ » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:29

1. not voprinimat all too literally.
2. there is no analogy with laser engraving.
3. Norbekov - he was still a chatterbox, and I at that time was partially recovered, so do not give the correct comment, but only gave a link to the Chronicles. Do the right thing and intuitively understood a lot, but could not intelligibly explain a lot (not enough confidence on himself, trying to look for the base on the side that You are trying to do in the books by Zelazny).

all is well with the Zelazny books, but they are not direct analogies and explanations that cannot be described with words based on the experience of the world. All (or most) Knish Zelazny describe the features of this world, although they built the worlds are completely different.
Compare "Chronicles" and "demon Lord", "bridge of ashes" and so on - will be a completely different picture of the world, but they are only facets of a whole, for which there is no suitable conceptual framework to fit into one book or a model.
Do not look for unnecessary analogies where they do not exist - diagonally read the bits of the first message - it's all garbage :) start to trust yourself and not to count the number of ways and stuff.
Method always and everywhere one - your consciousness which is not RUSNANO with the body, including physical, since the latter shows it and back it affects.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by к-13 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:08

Тимур М. wrote:Yes it is possible within this universe, this double pole (single pole Chaos, the other Order) the inhabitants of the worlds think that there is a struggle to win, at a higher order, it looks like just a game.
Here can disagree.
If you consider that chaos can also be considered the procedure only a higher level - there is simply much more rules-based which is constructed from miaopinie (and in the description of lras Chaos is noticeable), which are incomprehensible to the representatives of the "ordered" world - picture can be perceived in a slightly different breakaway for, fighting against the whole. Stood out one direction and began to change the world for themselves, imposing a one-sided development of reality according to their personal preferences. No one said that the primary amber is out of phase from the worlds of chaos - it's just as possible removed from them in the radial direction - in the same way be disposed of in any other of an infinite number of directions from the center and start a new order, which will be absolutely not similar to the amber Kingdom with his Unicorn. And where is the guarantee that the Chaos is the original whole, and not earlier breakaway from a higher order. There is no clear description of what the inhabitants of the worlds of Chaos are suffering, or have limitations in their unaccustomed have Amberite. There is no certainty that Chaos is evil, and amber - good (especially considering intrafamily Rashi among the descendants of Dworkin).
Although, it is thought, inspired by the holographic theory)))

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 17:10

thank you for the clarification :)

Something I really the logic involved to the maximum and began to see everything very literally :) .
Michael as always right.

I have for a long time originated the statement that All things are possible. At a certain strength and knowledge, I think it is even possible to realize literally much of the book. But is it even a worthwhile pursuit? As Michael said
Method is always and everywhere one - your consciousness which is not RUSNANO with the body, including physical, since the latter shows it and back it affects.
And indeed it originally is and it hardly makes sense to disassemble derived from this. If only for the sake of interest :) .

And Roger Zelazny's really a brilliant writer. I only watched a bit narrow for his works.

K-13, thanks, you're right, I didn't take really into account the fact that amber has been in the Realm of Chaos, it osipenco Dvorkina :) .

Still invisible theme created, but it would still literally looking for the truth in this book. And RJ, to me, was more interesting :)

But I have more trust in yourself.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Вячеслав. » Wed Mar 27, 2013 16:00

The theme of in truth interesting,that's my case.Many times in the bookstore went by,the books of Roger Zelazny,the course is not Mature enough yet at that time.Now there is a need to-time limited,although here at the time read a lot of fantasy books Nick Perumov in particular.I would like the theme to expand to where we need to read,although the word need not be entirely appropriate.Rather, it is a pleasant necessity. :)

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Wed May 01, 2013 18:15

About a month ago I started this thread. Michael your answer have adjusted my attitude to books RJ. For this I thank him. I became broader to look at all of what was written in his works, including HA. It is as if I was watching the movement of one ant in the anthill, and now looked at the nest as a whole. :)

And in the end. Often sit on the forum openmedia. And I began to notice the advice of Michael to read books Servista, in which, as he said, describes the processes very close to reality. Before this in eyes did not rush.

2nd week read his books. started with the Main threshold, knowing that this is not the first book began to read from the Book of secrets. In General, I was in shock :shock: like all similar books RJ. Jack of Shadows has the power in the shadows - and explanation Servista the shadow as the part of us that leading a shadow on the subject, we can feel its surface, without even touching it. It is a fact, the attorney for yourself :) . And there are a lot of mysteries solved. And HA now look very different. Started to feel tachuuu depth in this book. Which previously did not know. And I think that is still a fraction.

One realization that our possibilities are, what our solutions even more precisely the determination depends largely on personal power. Ways to increase which is not so difficult. One this realization gave me the explanation of much in my life. And even a small increase of this force. I don't know how you can increase it for 2 weeks, and I read of all the books Servista no more than half of the 1st book. But it was enough to arise in my life changes.

I wanted to live separately from their families, to rent an apartment. But what it does with the finances did not come out to do it all. And even a week ago, for me it was like some shadowy possibility in the future, my life was fine for me, although the desire was. And then there is the proposal for the apartment, and very profitable. I haven't been looking. Just called a friend and offered the apartment, like maybe someone need :) . I even wish his didn't tell him. I immediately took myself)). Also acting from the rules described in the book Servista. Which is the following: you can arbitrarily to achieve the goal, try to do a lot of things that would spend all of your powers, but before you achieved that goal, all your efforts are useless. In other words, I could arbitrarily save money, increase your RFP, save, but while I would not fault the apartment, it would be useless. And when it is removed, there are other concerns :) .

Perhaps a lot of fact the rent for themselves, it seems PTS shallow end, but for me it was different. And the same day I signed up to study for law, and a proposal for low-cost machines. Also from the other. But the car I regard as just one of the options. Just guessing what is the best option I find. I want a foreign car, not ours. And while no rights.

What I wanted to say. Sometimes the worldview is changing so everything is changing around you and including you. And that's enough for just one post (here referring to the post from Michael). I certainly understand that I was all this possible is ready. But all this happened quickly and avalanche. And the reason for all see from the present day, that out of some sort of obstacle, which gave the opportunity to look at everything differently.<
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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Wed May 01, 2013 18:25

So to all who read RJ, and those who have not read it)) also I advise you to read Servista. In the end understand that the worlds Zelazny much closer to our world than it seems :)

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Wed May 01, 2013 19:33

By the way, after reading Servista a bit, there was an assumption what is the Maze Pattern. Even rather not what is pattern and what is the force behind him. The pattern is the only opportunity to realize this power, but rather to connect with it. I often reread that part in the Chronicles of amber, which refers to the passage of the heroes of the Maze. Describe how think it is. But all this is IMHO.

First, there are a few rules of movement through the Maze.
1. It can pass only by those in whose veins flows the blood of amber. (or Chaos, in Logrus). I understand that it can pass the one in whom there is more power, individuality (this is from Servest).

All at once I will explain, I believe that having a pattern, the person connected with yourself, with your true essence, that there is Almighty power, to which all the super powers we can only dream of, there is only a small part of its essence. We are alienated from their true nature, and many social games, obyazonosti, etc. destroy this relationship, distancing us more from ourselves, and using our own strength. Well, for example we are doing something wrong on the part of the system, we begin to blame yourself in the end, destroying themselves. (but it's very rough I describe here, more precisely Servista). And acting from his personality, only what we want, when we returned. Like that time when Rand was surprised that Corwin gave him to shoot the driver, obeying the rules of the society in which he so long lived. What has not given Express randomu my personal desire (individuality), which for the random above any one else's life.

So, the farther we are from his essence, his personality, the less we of the blood of amber. I understand it's something like this.

And there are people who are so far from his forces, that the movement Pattern for them fatal.

2. You cannot get out of the way, otherwise it will disappear.
As I understand it, the Pattern is the path coming from our identity, changing it, we put ourselves under attack, that is, his power to draw against him. In the end, cease to exist.

Next. passing through the Maze having flashbacks, etc., as it is written as if you are split into many and combine again into a whole. I understand how the connection with its essence, through the rebuild. Create resonance without interference, deletion is not necessary, and personality remain.

Moreover, the movement through the Maze is a volitional movement. The movement of overcoming itself. When one step seems like an eternity, and make it so difficult like move the entire universe. Actually you're just changing yourself, peremabiri, and you are the whole universe, a force comparable to it. And overcome, you can do it only with this force. As I said we have it and we have only destroyed. That is to make one step we need a force that is in us, but undeveloped and far away from us, from our world view, our self. But we need to make a move, and we expertly return the part of the force which is necessary to overcome this step. And next is still a great power, but we already have part acquired and we move on. 8) . It's like Michael wrote somewhere that the military returned the vision of the soldiers by the battle in the dark. (sorry if not exactly said) as if There were selected, or to be beaten, if not murdered), or to regain the ability to see differently than usual. Extreme method.

As you see all now, but understand that all this has a very far from the truth. I hope that the direction is correct :) . If someone does not agree, write. I would be very interesting to know other opinions. :)<

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Fri May 03, 2013 12:31

I want to add to the above. I did not mean that the passage through the Maze, there is a very difficult task, in the sense that through pain, suffering, etc. Just compare. You are forced to perform any work, well, for example to clean the room. This is not your personal desire, perhaps you have other plans even if these plans were to stay in front of the TV, but they were yours. And I couldn't refuse, and you execute the cleaning without enthusiasm, and it certainly will feel tired. You yourself have suppressed their individuality, that wanted something else, and began to do what you need, not you, and not even a close person etc. And external entities (e.g. the image order) :) I was just talking in General.

Another option. You woke up this morning to the output, and I thought so: But it would be cool to get out. And enthusiastically do it. In this case, you are not the least bit tired, and even if tired, the fatigue is pleasant to you. Now you come from your personality.

Once again, have Servest more specifically described.

I wrote this only because some saw what I wrote above suffering for some, and believed that the path should be easy and beautiful. I agree completely with the last statement. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Let action be the most true and useful in the world, if it is not from personal desire, but by compulsion, his entire usefulness turns into "poison".

The fact of the matter is that the most important thing to come from their individuality, to do what you want. So for example if I myself make, in connection with the schedule AI to do the exercise. the number of repetitions becomes less and fatigue more. But if I do, though, in the 100th day exercise with real desire, with interest, the recurrence of the approaches increases significantly, while fatigue is not. And the pain that is in sports, so pleasant that is not associated with pain in any way :)

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Брэнд » Tue May 07, 2013 20:59

к-13 wrote:... where is the guarantee that Chaos is the original whole, and not earlier breakaway from a higher order. There is no clear description of what the inhabitants of the worlds of Chaos are suffering, or have limitations in their unaccustomed have Amberite...
Guarantees, of course, no matter what... but still Chaos - it is the original unit, the original darkness, is described in detail in the prequel of John. G. Betancourt. From this primordial darkness broke part of darkness (with Dvorkin in the Chapter) and at a great distance from the Chaos Dvorkin Barimen with his blood inscribed a new Logrus (as he thought)... but "Logrus" turned fiery and static, the permanent, unlike the constantly changing Serpent.
In General, it turned out - Pattern, Maze, amber, and the world has two polar.

May I ask what is amber like the original Chaos, or secondary, as a byproduct of "bad" experiences Dworkin?

I believe that amber is the original, and Chaos... Just in time unchallenged dominion of Chaos (one polar world) amber existed in unmanifest potential, as if in a compressed condition.

Because the Light was separated from Darkness, it is obvious that the Darkness more than the Light... Because, for the sake of balance of power became possible, and the third pole - the Maze Corwin.
Logrus, it seems, are not destroyed, unlike the Maze, which, though difficult, troublesome, but still can be damaged (and eventually destroyed). This is another explanation for the possible existence of multiple Mazes. The third is not superfluous, and "spare" ))
About the Maze Corvina little is known... He is a new universe only recently created and not yet populated.

If possible third pole - Corwin Maze, the other Maze. Many polar world.

From Zelazny, and Betancourt also describes a world of Chaos: conflict, struggle for power, intrigue, murder... and You say that
"...There is no clear description of what the inhabitants of the worlds of Chaos are suffering, or have restrictions."
That's the trick that the one polar world of Chaos was not ideal... not perfect (in the sense of finality and certainty) and the world of Chaos - amber.<

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by к-13 » Tue May 07, 2013 23:42

Брэнд wrote:and You say that
"...There is no clear description of what the inhabitants of the worlds of Chaos are suffering, or have restrictions."
That's the trick that the one polar world of Chaos was not ideal... not perfect (in the sense of finality and certainty) and the world of Chaos - amber.
The main thrust of my message was that in an infinite number of reflections may be a bit less, but the same infinite ( :wink: ) number of other "mess" - all the disasters, invasions and destruction in the worlds of this specific Chaos caused by the imbalance due to unauthorized branches of the reflections created by the slightly kooky Dworkin. And the very name of Chaos symbolic as amber (amber), symbolic and their symbols - the serpent and the unicorn. Chaos actually was far from this chaos (the state of matter in which the simultaneous existence any order, regardless of its dimensionality or complexity), and amber the book describes, as another breakaway conglomerate of mutants without morals and conscience.

PS: actually I am an optimist))) But it does not evaluate the book from the standpoint of liking the main characters - just information laid out on shelves according to its specific gravity, and not imposed filters and templates. This allows you to look slightly wider than the main plot.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Брэнд » Wed May 08, 2013 19:06

к-13 wrote:in an infinite number of reflections may be a bit less, but the same infinite ( :wink: ) number of other "mess" - all the disasters, invasions and destruction in the worlds of this specific Chaos caused by the imbalance due to unauthorized branches of the reflections created by the slightly kooky Dworkin. ...Chaos actually was far from this chaos (the state of matter in which the simultaneous existence any order, regardless of its dimensionality or complexity), and amber the book describes, as another breakaway conglomerate of mutants without morals and conscience.

PS: actually I am an optimist))) ... just lay the information on the shelves according to its specific gravity...

"in an infinite number of reflections may be a bit less but the same ... infinite number of other "mess"
"in an infinite number of reflections"... - reflections what? Do you think that the Order reflects the Chaos?
The shadow arose (only) with the advent of the Labyrinth and the Kingdom of the amber is the first shadow. Chaos (Darkness) - does not cast shadows, though they are able to absorb.
The real world and its reflection is not identical, although similar (to a certain limit).

How can you compare infinity with infinity on the subject - "slightly less"???
Don't understand the logic of Your mind...

"...skewed due to the emergence of unauthorized branches of the reflections created by the slightly kooky Dworkin..."

But there is a clear substitution of concepts.
When Dworkin created amber he was in his right mind.
As Dvorkin has created the Labyrinth of himself (his blood and thought), then he became this Maze, and the Maze was Dworkin. The part became the Whole and that Whole was spread across the Universe of amber, though not lost (in this case) the appearance of Dworkin.

And I want here to recall the first principle of Hermes: "the universe is a mental image of One."

Madness Dvorkin occurred due to damage to the Labyrinth by the blood of Martin (grandson Dworkin). After the restoration of the Labyrinth Oberon, Dworkin madness has passed.

About "unauthorized branches of reflections" I have some reason to believe that the traitor of Chaos, Dworkin, had help, or at least sympathizers in the camp of Chaos. Remember a friendly relationship Dvorkin and Dry... they were caught red-handed Corvinus, for a friendly chat and a game of chess in the Dancing Mountains. And suhai was not only a powerful mage and Creator of the Cards at the court of Chaos, but also the Keeper of the Logrus. Thief and Guardian friendly talk... Not Dry do stretch the strings of betrayal Logrus Dworkin and the kidnapping of the last judgment Stone?

"..The chaos actually was far from true chaos.."

Zelazny describes the one - a primordial Chaos, from which arose all the other stuff.
However, to convince anyone - an unreal problem. Here may only help our own experience of true Chaos... or in the extreme case, you can read the same Chronicles of amber.

"Amber the book describes, as another breakaway conglomerate of mutants without morals and conscience..."

Morality and conscience is a dangerous topic, for ideas about these things each individual are very different.
Amber - not "another breakaway conglomerate", and the FIRST (one might say, original) shard of Darkness, the Light.

Unlike You, K-13, I am not optimistic, as well - and not a pessimist. I - a realist and appreciate the clarity of expression and argumentation.
"Who thinks clearly, he - clearly States"

Please carefully analyze the information "on the shelves according to its specific weight".<

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by к-13 » Wed May 08, 2013 22:09

I see no point in continuing the discussion with You specifically, because I understand perfectly the reasons for its occurrence - it is yesterday an event occurred which was to cause such withdrawal (associated with this book and "living trump", the name which You chose as a nickname) and this is why the development of this line of events I am absolutely not interested :? Yesterday you registered on this forum just to talk about the Chronicles of amber and specifically with me? I'm flattered :oops:

PS: You deliberately distort the content of the books where it is impossible to be attributed to perception, or different books we read?

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Брэнд » Thu May 09, 2013 14:27

K-13
Don't be fooled, pretending to understand the causes of our discussion, since I started it...
Do not flatter yourself that You know me )), although I'm on this forum since the beginning of its origin... and Nicki, check, different computers and browsers... is all immaterial, for it is clear, conditional.
Why write all this? hmm, just a certain force is interested in this gross feature of humans - to do a good mine at bad game: "you do Not know yourself, teach another."
And here it is: "Physician, heal yourself, then heal other" - why it has not received such wide distribution in your shadow - Land.

K-13, the Brand impression that You know nothing about amber, Chaos, and all that is covered in detail in the Chronicles of amber... if You're not playing a more subtle game, specifically and intentionally exposing themselves know nothing, distorting the facts.

"Amber the book describes, as another breakaway conglomerate of mutants without morals and conscience..."

Sometimes breaking up with the head and less insults... unless I insulted Your Homeland...
Last edited by Брэнд on Thu May 09, 2013 20:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Брэнд » Thu May 09, 2013 17:55

Тимур М. wrote:...
As you see all now, but understand that all this has a very far from the truth. ...
How do You know that Your hands - "still PTS far from the truth"???
This requires, at least, know the truth!

You do know a lot and write, mostly, the right things... but You have doubts in yourself, the correctness of his understanding of reality.
What do You think, with your doubts you can go through the Maze to the end? The fact of the matter is that it is impossible!

Timur M., it is better to err on his way, than to doubt yourself.
From mistakes we all learn, and self-doubt is a betrayal of himself, his integrity.

More practice experience and confidence in their abilities.
Good luck on your Way to knowing the Truth!

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Смелый » Thu May 09, 2013 18:15

Брэнд wrote:this requires, at least, know the truth!
Sorry for the stupid questions.

1. To know the truth - You think that's possible?

2. If possible, how it can learn? Consciousness? Subconscious? The super-consciousness? The superconscious mind? The Higher Self?

3. If possible, we like to tell myself that you?

4. The Chronicles of amber is the only place where this truth is?

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Брэнд » Thu May 09, 2013 18:33

Bold

The Chronicles of amber is not "the only place where this truth is". Better to say the truth everywhere, inside and outside, upstairs and downstairs... What are the questions these are the answers! )))

"To know the truth - You think that's possible?"

For me - Yes, this is possible. For You - You decide.

Question 2 - this question troubled mind. Stop the mental flow of their horses and this is the truth.

"3. If possible, we like to tell myself that you?"

in what place?
To stop your thoughts - it is possible, for example, through meditation - liberating thoughts
or using the same mind of the machine - just great.

When you learn the truth, the knowledge gives confidence.

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Смелый » Fri May 10, 2013 2:57

Брэнд wrote:When you learn the truth, the knowledge gives confidence.
Confidence is good!
Where it is possible to make such confidence? Based on the truth achieved through meditation.
Although, Your answers are already clear to me. And received, and future.
Thank you!

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Re: The Chronicles Of Amber. Roger Zelazny.

Post by Тимур М. » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:20

In HA says a lot about the world Picture. On changing it.

I will describe everything as I see at the moment. This is all very IMHO. And if anyone thinks differently, write. For me now the topic picture of the world (KM) is very interesting. :)

Amber -is a reality. Everything else is just a reflection of this reality. A lot of reflections. I wrote before, we took the help of the description of the world from Borislava Servista. Take a man, everyone has their own picture of the world. That is a reflection of the man himself. All around us and our strength. You can say that really just our body and our inner consciousness. Describe all rude. Anyone in our environment, any situation, any subject - all of this is our reflection, and exists because of our strength. Hence, our main content. We are a reflection of the pattern, which reside inside of us. It's like HA exists originally the Pattern, creating the amber. That is a reality, but the 2nd measurement from the true reality. Well, all the rest is just reflection.

Have Servest very well described. We have a holistic world, the whole universe. But in our world of illusions is easier for us to separate itself from the part and to oppose them. We are surrounded by people who are initially neutral to us. But we endow them with his power, forcing us to play certain roles. Head must control us, and indicate what to do. Although in reality, it is our desire to organize his life under the illusion. Our desire to control ourselves.

It's flipped upside down.

Amber swims in the ocean of reality, casting infinite reflections. Only real amber. All other reflection only reflected in the space of his shadow. And we are real only we, but all around us is our reflection in the space, people and so on. And all reflection in General - is our current KM.Amber also includes everything. And amberit can move through the reflections as it has a holistic pattern, holistic KM. You can change inside KM and space around an impact otherwise. We already find ourselves in another shade. In principle we do it every day, it vrazhdena our ability, only use it skillfully and not without understanding. We can create any reflection. But not having a holistic KM we live in the narrow confines of reality fenced off from himself (not without the help of others) most of the world.

In HA says that the Pattern was broken. And the reality was threatened.

Perhaps in us, or in the Pattern of planet Earth (although everything is interconnected, I think) there is a change. Pattern someone broke. Opening the Black road. The path to the heart of our reality. Our true self Or similar, to the heart of the planet. Violating the integrity and making us vulnerable.

Born on the planet Earth, we carry that Pattern. Even if we're not from here.

Amberite pass the labyrinth (Pattern) and the essence of this action, the connection ourselves into one. "I feel like I won, joined with a part of himself" (having one of the Barriers). Then where is the reality? I understand that the whole theatre of our lives is played among the scenery of the planet Earth. This is a very diverse world, but carries a certain pattern, a certain resonance, a certain melody. We just decided to play here. In another corner of the universe options are quite different even representation we do not have. But we decided to play here. Although this world was injured, and carries the disharmony, allowing other realities to influence the world. They are not bad, they're just different. But they bring destruction. This is a different Personality.

Someone wants to restore the integrity of this world, who does not see in it special need, realizing that this part of the universe is only one border in common, and disappearing, may be another. But while we're here, and all the laws are. We were just snowed and we live not seeing the whole picture.

I repeat this is all my personal opinion, what I describe to yourself to understand everything.

The main problem in our static picture of the world. Not the same laws we have the basis. Everything is changeable and malleable. And actually it is not so. Imagine you are in a damaged reality, I see it Vice versa. To somehow manage it, you need to return the vision to the place.

Want to walk the reflections? For this 1ым my action must be a Maze. This connection with yourself by yourself. The acquisition of integrity. At the end of the Maze, amberit comes in its Center. Gaining a complete picture of the world we find ourselves in its Center. We connect with his Personality. We are aware of ourselves. Since we originally got the Pattern. Realizing it fully, we are free to go in any direction. To cross any reflection.

That is what I wanted to say. Passing through the Maze, we are in his Picture of the world be in the center. We finally realize that the reality is only we, all around, only our reflection. The whole visible world. It is passing through the Maze of the Earth. Passing through the Maze of the Universe, we realize that the reality again is we, and all the worlds of this universe is a reflection of us. And so on.

And absolutely we are aware that all infinity is only our reflection. And you can manage it.

Again, all that has been written IMHO.<
Last edited by Тимур М. on Wed Jul 24, 2013 14:29, edited 1 time in total.

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