Devices for biofeedback

Biofeedback.
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ЮрийС
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Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Tue Mar 04, 2014 17:30

Good afternoon.

On your website you offer a mental game with biofeedback using a GSR. I have experience of biofeedback with a GSR sensor (not yours) after some time I was "trained" to relax your hand, while continuing to think about something else (and also nervous, etc.). Ie disconnect the CNS from the peripheral nervous system. That gave me the opportunity to use the device for anti-stress use - something for which I bought it.

I tried EEG biofeedback, but to strengthen himself on the head electrodes was not easy.

Question - are there any interesting biofeedback devices for stress relief and meditation? I read about the crownscopy. The device is very expensive so just do not want to buy. Has experience with someone? Or other ideas?

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 19:10

A search? And so the clones spawn a lot of...

EmWave2 there seems to also still for sale - takes the pulse characteristics (clip on ear or finger on the button), can work standalone, imposing the rhythm and depth of respiration through the alternative display on the led screen.

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Tue Mar 04, 2014 22:51

emWave2 I have. Works on the basis of heart rate variability (heart rhythm). I have strong doubts about the effectiveness of this device, and possibly method - in contrast to EEG, where the connection status and feedback is clear and instant response, with variability not all clear. I believe that the instrument response is very late, and this significantly complicates its use as bare.

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 23:01

About working with the computer, I don't know about that worked with him exclusively offline. There are no problems, particularly in dynamics - changes in emotions and muscle tone of the sound almost immediately said - even as a means to increase awareness can be used (or corny, as a reminder of a reality check in practice, the OS, and this is its most interesting application).

With the computer using the local barefoot RAG Mind Reflection (only I have white, not black as here all the photos :cry: ) - as a means of biotinidase in the same neuro-the programmer works very well and more on yourself to experiment laziness :?

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:49

I also have a standalone version emWave2 - a quick but clear connection between emotions and changes of sound, I do not feel.

General link - Yes, there is, i.e. the total relaxed state corresponds to a different sound. But the change sounds within a session does not coincide with the change of emotions, my opinion, which is significantly (say, 10 seconds) is delayed relative to the change in mental state, and sometimes even unclear.

My personal opinion. Because the algorithm they closed it just to say something difficult.

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 15:03

About 10 seconds don't know my feeling response sound occurs after about 3-5 seconds, so for such a situation very well (heart rate, too, not by switching the toggle switch changes). The device in this use case, and should not react immediately, otherwise it will fire too often - it keeps track of sustainable change, and not every little thing. Although it is likely in the mechanism analysis :?

You specify exactly what You want from the device? What is Your understanding of "anti-stress" mean? As for me, it for stress relief all the devices I've tried, fit (including the Mirage-1, although he himself in many stress drives :lol: ).

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Wed Mar 05, 2014 17:20

K-13, thanks for the constructive dialogue.

About heart rate - I agree, he changes not immediately - after a few seconds - even with increasing physical activity. To track changes in variability probably even longer. So it seems to me that the pulse isn't the best for barefoot.

About the only track lasting change - I do not agree. It is through the tracing detail can be most effectively build feedback, since the tracking details gives instant reaction (for example EEG).

About anti-stress use. Now, you got me. I agree that probably the same GSR is suitable as a method of dealing with stress, because stress changes are coarse (strong), they are easier to track. Leave only the 2nd part of the question - help with meditation. Actually, the GSR sensor I bought more for aid when entering into a meditative state, and he helped me only in the 1st stage (for the reason stated in the 1st post).

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 19:46

ЮрийС wrote:About the only track lasting change - I do not agree. It is through the tracing detail can be most effectively build feedback, since the tracking details gives instant reaction (for example EEG).
I judge by what the developers say your EmWave2 device mainly for 2 purposes:
- training relaxation through breath control (look at the readout, adjust the breath, immediately the calibrated result and commensurate with the condition)
Here at haste is not necessary.
- training awareness (put on the belt and work - only to digress or negative flooded - a buzzer will sound, hinting that you need to take yourself in hand). Agree, in this situation too silly to pick on each moving limb (and they are really on the variability characteristics of the displays - enough to make a wave of the hand in a circle to pulse instantly rose by a few beats per minute, which is more than serious to barefoot. And it's not how many loads, how much to change the spatial configuration of the blood pool and the centrifugal force on the blood in the blood longitudinal arteries - the pressure in the arm increases significantly, stretching the blood vessels, while throughout the rest of the body falls slightly. Heart and an extra valve in the large blood vessels on the machine adjusts to each such swing characteristics, to help ease the stress by disruption of the normal supply on the brain - mechanism analysis of the characteristics constructed so that these adjustment do not take into account an event is not capable, in principle, and EEG dynamics to remove problematic). Besides, if to speak about the awareness, then the less will be the signals, the less likely that the user will be commonplace for them to score)))

That is, in respect of this instrument to speak in a key instant tracking is incorrect. In MindWorkStation it is used for biofeedback with the goal of individual biooptical sessions of audiovisual stimulation, but the mechanism is completely different than for barefoot on the GSR.
ЮрийС wrote:About anti-stress use. Now, you got me. I agree that probably the same GSR is suitable as a method of dealing with stress, because stress changes are coarse (strong), they are easier to track. Leave only the 2nd part of the question - help with meditation. Actually, the GSR sensor I bought more for aid when entering into a meditative state, and he helped me only in the 1st stage (for the reason stated in the 1st post).
At the primary level mental game - this is meditation. Plus monitoring the effectiveness of certain techniques with the expression of the testing results in specific numbers (here any barefoot).

Apparently we have different understandings of the complex anti-stress activities))) For me is more resistance to stress very much depends on the person's ability to relax - that is, if every day (or at least regularly) to load the body in deep muscle relaxation (and the brain, respectively, in the dominance of alpha rhythms), then after two or three weeks in the vast majority of stressful stimuli will simply not care. Will remain a tiny part of the large stimuli and personal bouquet tied to the inner clamps and chronic psychological trauma reactions. They worked in the deeper States.

In the end, what is meditation? This condition, when the brain is disconnected from the outside world (the body deeply relaxed and relaxing effect on the receptors, and mikepatton soothing) and begins to dive into the study itself, but the consciousness remains awake. Biofeedback devices simply help to move towards achieving this state the most effective methods of practicing is not necessary to spend months and years in order to ensure that it does not fit some kind of relaxation technique - now it is becoming clear once - on readings. Thereon, he can immediately draw conclusions about these or other additional techniques, accelerating or retarding the progress towards the goal. To rely on any other application of these devices is, of course, possible, but this is a side branch of their application which can give positive results and may not give :?<

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:21

hung on the belt and work - only to digress or negative flooded - a buzzer will sound, hinting that you need to take yourself in hand). Agree, in this situation too silly to pick on each moving limb
My emWave works differently - there is silence (and flashing red light) indicates "bad" (need to pull myself together) and sounds (2 types) - what is "good" or "excellent". The mode in K-m silent - a sign of "good" seems to me more preferable. You your reprogrammed or it was originally like this?

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 14:20

There was nothing special on the fourth difficulty level disable led indication. I have in this mode, three sound is a non-breaking change characteristics (close to F2 and C#3, I did not understand in what order they are issued, because to me they are not interesting, but at first glance there is no clear algorithm - green/dark blue or increase/decrease can be observed both that and another) and display on the red light (three beeping as the battery is empty, only much louder and an octave higher - that react).

After the purchase I experimented with pressing the buttons (there are only 2, but the duration of pressing, the sequence and mode of use give a lot of variation), after which it I was having a brain fart and stopped to respond - I had to disassemble and disconnect the battery to return to the factory settings. Now he, too, uninstalled indicator of breath randomly tossing the scale, changing direction in the most unexpected places... Although my work is not affected - I still for the breathing exercises don't use.

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Thu Mar 06, 2014 23:53

Here 3 beeps when the red light got no - I got silence when the red light. Okay, I read the user manual on the holidays.

Your use of emwave (or any other device based on HRV - heart rate variability) while working (I know, behind the computer). What we want to track is a change of emotional state. For far anyway - has been far because of emotions or because of the typing hands on the keyboard (the physical movements). So I always believed that HRV can only work at rest... Yes, even on the 4th level... You surprised me.

Okay, need to think. Tell me, does the mental game, to-e work with the emwave?

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:27

ЮрийС wrote:Here is the 3 beeps when the red light got no - I got silence when the red light. Okay, I read the user manual on the holidays.
Share? And most of the feed they have there is mostly reformby developers and related information, for the instrument is hung, what method of scientific spear with him understood.
your Use of emwave (or any other device based on HRV - heart rate variability) while working (I know, behind the computer). What we want to track is a change of emotional state. For far anyway - has been far because of emotions or because of the typing hands on the keyboard (the physical movements). So I always believed that HRV can only work at rest... Yes, even on the 4th level... You surprised me.
I have a well-pumped alpha. I'll probably surprise You more, if you tell me where periodically use the device :lol:
My profession does a computer not connected (except when searching for customers or communicating with them, or maintaining websites and pages on social networks- that's when I declared there) - I'm the village blacksmith, mostly in Judaica specializers - fences/gates, stairs, canopies, furniture... in the Fall for a month 2 times a week for an hour worked with a clip on the ear from the horn does not work (I'm afraid to drown) and when assembling/welding is easy - the device works quite well, at the end of such sessions, in which the device is permanently lit green. I had, however, clip to improve, not to come off (glued on the perimeter of the silicone rings and the spring is pulled a bit, otherwise my earlobes not enough to secure). Closer to the summer again course again (in warm clothes, it is problematic to use in the outer pocket, the device freezes and is already at +5 the battery begins to fail, and sweats), but then again, occasionally, you may desire some almost finished piece in a corner working out to bombard)))

As far as I understand the principle of operation, the device does not respond to physical activity - it tracks only the emotional. Relax your body, it indirectly triggers.
Well, need to think. Tell me, does the mental game, to-e work with the emwave?
I do not know. I don't use it with computer (after planting Carlson on a pile of grub these graphs and palms except yawning did not cause). On the disk included with the device like there was something. This need Dmitry to ask.
In extreme cases, can any games to play with him - even table, even on fresh air (one of the developers on YouTube played Golf, explaining the principle of use of the device in active activities), at least on the screen somewhere... the Beauty of the instrument that he doesn't care what You do - it only works with what you feel about it.<

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by ЮрийС » Fri Mar 07, 2014 22:25

Yes, you surprised me. And movie about Golf on youtube I found...

Found on the unit 3 beeps, but this is the indication of low battery! (on my device anyway). These 3 beeps are not connected with coherence, and appear regardless of the color of the bulb. Here it is only that I have popisil has popisil, and then switched off, i.e. need to be charged.
I Have a well-pumped alpha
Pumped refers to the use of active methods like binaural beats?

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Re: Devices for biofeedback

Post by к-13 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:33

ЮрийС wrote:Yes, you surprised me. And movie about Golf on youtube I found...
For me personally it is from this roller device became interesting. Before I such devices bare not seen.
I Have a well-pumped alpha
Pumped refers to the use of active methods like binaural beats?
They here you can check out viewforum.php?f=47 )))

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