A few questions about mind machines

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:04

Hello dear users mind machines!

Interest in the mind machines I have for a long time. Somewhere about 5 years ago started to use nebezyzvesten BWGen, after about a month they gathered unto him AudioStrobe decoder glasses. After nedelku or two I have experienced first WTO now I have it almost every night, and then two or three times. I myself work as an artist of the Symphony orchestra and the WTO, I had very help in professional activities, in fact to deepen the mind machine I need. But the points I then gathered as something bad and through a floor of year threw the whole thing due to the fact that in the field of vision of the left eye began to notice a black speck. Without glasses effectiveness of the program diminished, but I put up with it for about a year. Then completely stopped using, and the sessions began to make the sound editors so they noticed that the waves of different forms are completely different even in the same range (attribute this to the fact that the beats arise not only with the main tones of carrier frequencies, but also their harmonics which can also be a little frustrating and get very rich set of effects on the brain). However, the method of AVS I appreciated in all its glory. Not come across your website, but somehow avoided it (too it was a pity money for the machine

). But now decided to read well, we offer manufacturers. A little reading of various sources, I concluded that the better a firm's product Photosonix to find something more or less good unlikely to succeed.

Already on your website looked at characteristics of the instrument and at the same time praised the program that drives the session to these devices. If you honestly technical characteristics a little disappointed. I understand all the frequencies is fixed, i.e., it is possible to load was 192, but not 196 Hz, and heartbeat for example 4.5, but not 4.8 Hz? Or is it just a program curve

if so, then I'll easily write your own, since the sessions have an open format, it is easily seen if you open any of them in a standard Notepad. Also not happy that so few generators, if I'm not mistaken their 7 - 4 on the synthesis of sine waves (or waves of other shapes), 2 for AudioStrobe and 1 (on both channels) to the synthesis of the noise? Besides the interesting question about whether the devices filter filters out audio output frequency AudioStrobe, but it really hurts hearing it cuts. As these machines are sound quality and decoder? Can be in the characteristics of devices are still kakya difference than those stated in the comparisons on your website, then advise what device is better.
Thank you.

Dimas · Post by **Dimas** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:05

Путешественник wrote: How do these machines sound quality and decoder? Can be in the characteristics of devices are still kakya difference than those stated in the comparisons on your website, then advise what device is better.
Thank you.

Dear Traveler,sorry for not immediately reply...This is possible..

Judging by Your post,You are quite well versed in matters of svetistkhoveli of the brain.I think that in any case Photosonix better than an IED.The sound quality from the headphones (and rhythms generated by the device) good,certainly enough to "drive" You to the desired state...Audiostrobe signal read fine...if You need the device for individual lessons,it is undoubtedly Innerpulse (with points of Colortrak (if you like bloat),or Premium white (I like) or Premium Indigo (for beginners and deep trance))...For personal use is very well suited MindSpa,the only disadvantage of this device is that there is built-in just 12 sessions without the ability to upload...but all that is required for entry into the "standard" condition there.

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 21:30

Dimason most of my questions You have not answered

.
About audiostrobe (topic about AVSTIM page 2):

Pavel wrote: innerpulse mode audiostrobe made very Galimov/bad. The susceptibility of audiostrobe most drives to be beyond comfortable levels of play (if you take the stereo and the players).

Андрей Патрушев wrote:unfortunately, with audiostrobe all the same as in Innerpulse.
Often, players have two choices - one adjustable headphone, a second line (not adjustable). In this case, the audio can be listen directly from the player, and glasses to run the other way.

I'm afraid that if the pulse length will be laid - 50ms or shorter then the average volume of the input signal points can significantly photoprivate (I often use theta rhythms, and then the pulse length is critical).

венн · Post by **венн** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 23:01

:
Hello
Need help
InnerPulse--when playing AudiStrob drive no signal on the glasses
The sound is With the built-in sessions all right
All that is written on this forum proboval - to no avail
Summed sound with CD player and Music centre - all one
Ideas does anyone have

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 23:11

If the disk with already recorded signalom Audiostrobe, to react somehow needs. If this is a normal audio CD (no special signal), it is likely that no reaction of the decoder and will not, or will irregular irregular flashes due to reaction to high frequency. The performance of the decoder to determine easily whether or just to include embedded session, or be on the audio input signal at a frequency of 19,200 Hz.

Джим · Post by **Джим** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 23:17

Then completely stopped using, and the sessions began to make the sound editors so they noticed that the waves of different forms are completely different even in the same range (attribute this to the fact that the beats arise not only with the main tones of carrier frequencies, but also their harmonics which can also be a little frustrating and get very rich set of effects on the brain).

Excuse me, but how did you do the waves in different forms? I.e. trivial (triangle, trapezium etc) or something more others guided?? There was once a belief that if to try to portray their for EEG waveform, the d. b. well. Not confirmed absolutely, by the way. Ie you could breathe in the features custom waveforms 2nd life (I honestly don't believe in "non-sine"), however...
And, please, do not rush to leave the forum/topic-your message is very interesting.

венн · Post by **венн** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 23:48

Traveler

I wrote "with the built-in sessions all right"
Drives Audistrob -Patrushev
I basically school finished hours ago

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 23:55

Джим wrote:I'm sorry, but how did you do the waves in different forms? I.e. trivial (triangle, trapezium etc) or something more others guided??

Well, I already wrote that I use a regular audioeditor. Other wave forms (not sine waves) is really a different act. Calculate beat frequencies of such waves it is necessary for the harmonics (S=s*i*awhere S=the frequency of the beating of the desired harmonics, sthe frequency of the beating is the main tone, i=number of harmonics, and=correction factor (in harmonic synthesis a=1)), all of that falls outside the desired range it is necessary to partially filter. You can also use harmonic synthesis. Dubbed the EEG would be wrong to act because in the audible range is only high beta. But it can very well encode placing on carriers according to certain rules

. Nevertheless they can not even hope to get from such sessions in absolutely the same condition as in the process of removal, although in General it will be somewhat similar.

венн wrote:I wrote "with the built-in sessions all right"
Drives Audistrob -Patrushev
I basically school finished hours ago

Venndon't be offended , I just somehow missed about the built-in session. About the drive Patrushev I don't know anything, but it seems (judging by the forum) in the format Audiostrobe they had not all. Even so, verify the generated sound at a frequency of 19,200 Hz.

Post by **Андрей Кабанков** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 0:15

венн wrote::
Hello
Need help
InnerPulse--when playing AudiStrob drive no signal on the glasses
The sound is With the built-in sessions all right
All that is written on this forum proboval - to no avail
Summed sound with CD player and Music centre - all one
Ideas does anyone have

And the PLAY button don't forget to click?

Джим · Post by **Джим** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 0:31

Cool formula

Sometime in 1996 was the program CoolEdit-96. They say this is not the worst a-ed began with a DOS-prog -- generator BW. When I met him in ' 96, and having found that it is quite a tool for restoration with magnetized strips, ran into BW-synthesis. +Method, +a Killer bibliography. But -- no effect. Much Later got to BB. Effect-is evident. Went back to CoolEdit/AdobeAudition and looked at how it works. It turned out-it makes phase modulation (+-90dg) of the carrier signal. + Amplitude (can be disabled). If you look at the range, it generates many frequency components with a step equal to the modulation frequency. They, in turn, give a grid of beats that are multiples of the original frequency modulation. Morality -- with a rich range poor brain is difficult (or impossible -- as I understand it, depending on the individual) to cling to a specific frequency. Rulett (for me) -- 0-effect.
On the other hand -- BB. 2 bands -- Delta (take EVERYTHING) and the total (if you're lucky -- sometimes hear).
Ie, it's nice to hear the waves etc. forms are-could not tell which forms? Range are different.
About MM from Photosonox -- indeed, the basic (i.e., while one segment to another pereschitivaetsya) the carrier frequency cannot be set arbitrarily. More important -- beat frequencies are also hard-coded (the lower, the harder). And 2 channel. At the last moment -- the editor suggests (along with the free frequency setting 2 channel) set the relative frequency of the 2nd channel (Rel. first) +-15 Hz, step 1 Hz. Ie you can get more than 2 of the beat frequencies, but with limitations.
To the obvious advantages include the ease of working with the "fast"sessions (i.e., with the parameters changing with the rate of about 5 C.) and sibling cycles.
I would like to comment on the 1st part of the cart...

Джим · Post by **Джим** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 0:42

By the way, was not cut that is, if you specify a frequency that is different from the offer. editor. MB I will try (not promise-time time...) No earlier than tomorrow, in any case.

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:19

Other forms of waves are based on harmonic composition. The sound did not cut the ear strongly recommend to cut the filter, all harmonics outside the effective zone of action, or simply to expand the range and expose them to the amplitude modulation. Cool Edite as in Audition to create the desired effect very convenient, but to create binaural beats in it separately, and modulations (brainwave embedded feature) to expose another material, for example the background. Incidentally amplitude modulation is a very strong incentive (in this case, the shorter the pulse, the stronger the response of the brain), almost on par with rhythmic clicks, but is very hard. Phase modulation such results does not give and is suitable only for background processing.

by the Way, was not cut that is, if you specify a frequency that is different from the offer. editor. MB I will try (not promise-time time...) No earlier than tomorrow, in any case.

If you manage music, it is possible to increase its effective impact Snana the pace of the work, provided that it is fixed. In other cases, regardless of the selected frequencies, the sound becomes smeared and unpleasant since this eliminates the effect of masking. The act frequency so as to operate the frequency of the selected range, the only difference in the power response.

Джим · Post by **Джим** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:33

Wow, I got...
Frequency (and carrier, and modulation) after downloading rounded to "valid" (in the sense of the editor) values. So the text editor won't help you. (and the warning indicator, and really measured -- 3 different variations).

So it doesn't sound cut ear cut highly recommend to filter all harmonics outside the effective zone of action

I'm sorry, what is "effective area"?

and modulations (brainwave embedded feature) to expose another material, such as background

This is interesting. I saw that. But not everyone understood. And from what reasons selected frequency background?? (caught in the examples I was kind of 0.41 Hz always, regardless of the content of the session).
Yes, and not bothered with an editor to Tinker (it == rhetorical question

)

:

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:40

Area to 4kHz is the most efficient, harmonics above this zone is more appropriate subjected to amplitude modulation. However, it makes sense to begin to better filter if the main tone in the area 16Hz - 400Hz. The background is a bit not what you said, in the background I was referring to the music or noise.

And with editors to bother not tired, I'm still primarily a musician

.

Джим · Post by **Джим** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:44

Once again on the editor and grid frequency -- see the misunderstanding -- it's all about Photosonix. Ie I have created 3 session castorate known to be equal to the proposed native editor to create the library and uploaded. And died that poluchilos. Frequency (F&P) (in response to your Traveler, the original question) have been rounded to the valid.

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:49

Opensource projects, eh...

So I know not to buy the machine or not, buy only as a decoder as it is not very interesting + don't know what to choose... we Must also think carefully and weigh everything.

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:03

I do not understand all that's why manufacturers of frequency recorded? I'm afraid that the user will inadvertently hurt yourself? Then would the mode advanced user. Although I doubt that here in this case. But for me, this blokirovka very out of place (in the theta state you feel a difference of up to a few hundredths of a Hertz, but in the beta the pitch range in Hertz, IMHO, too broad). There might be a possibility to change the firmware in the unit and thereby eliminate such a drawback?

:

Джим · Post by **Джим** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:39

Hardly was malice... most Likely the person programmirovat firmware it was convenient, and all agreed that for domestic applications that is enough.
By the way, all that I intend -- that's NP100 (model 1999) may Innerpulse better, although unlikely -- the code is usually rewritten from generation to generation, as well as session

By the way, Trobe decoder is very good -- out of the led's dynamic range more than they technically can give

And really my rudeness, Traveler -- like something you could share with the people of their hand-made work? ie don't count, and all of a sudden? Especially, in the performance of the musician....

венн · Post by **венн** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:18

Andrew Kabankov

If you press Play it will strob from that session that is in
default-checked by the nature of the scintillation
If you set the user session in the machine
in principle, no and no gate

венн · Post by **венн** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:29

Traveler
Even so, verify the generated sound at a frequency of 19,200 Hz.

BWG to generate good?

Post by **Андрей Кабанков** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:49

венн wrote:Andrew Kabankov

If you press Play it will strob from that session that is in
default-checked by the nature of the scintillation
If you set the user session in the machine
in principle, no and no gate

To listen drive audiostrobe need to put the machine in a mode AUS ,then click PLAY.

венн · Post by **венн** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:55

Andrew Kabankov

Well, thank God
However if it was reflected in the guide
then the question would nebylo
THANKS if you help
I'll go check

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:50

Джим wrote:most Likely, the person programmirovat firmware it was convenient, and all agreed that for domestic applications this is sufficient

Doubtful, because the formula of the synthesis of sine waves of one and the same. There probably is a marketing ploy. Then release the same innerpulse with another firmware will change a little design, and all new device with a bunch of supposedly new features and a completely unprecedented price of 499$ or so

.

the Traveler -- like something you could share with the people of their hand-made work? ie don't count, and all of a sudden? Especially, in the performance of the musician....

Unfortunately this amount of traffic I just can't fill, there session at 300-500 Mb of uncompressed sound:(. Compressive high-frequency component, unfortunately, sounds much worse than even on the bitrate of 256kb/s (weighing this file will be around 60-90 Mb, which is also quite a lot).

About what did the musician, I have the opinion that this is not essential. Here is more from mathematics than from music. Even so in the music of Xania is retrieved from memory in aid of intuition and intelligence, his attachment to the language and clarity of the conclusions, even as a controlling mechanism may sometimes significantly impair its unidirectionality and consistency of the entire creative process. On the contrary, in creating the sessions, the intellect dominates (I do so because...). Although I do not deny that a certain musicality sessions to give just necessary but already in the field of logical thinking as a fish in water.

Путешественник · Post by **Путешественник** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 19:37

And we will answer Andrey Patrushev and the guys from Albus? And that matters a lot, experience much less

. Hopefully not ignore

...

Post by **Андрей Кабанков** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 20:52

венн wrote:Andrew Kabankov

Well, thank God
However if it was reflected in the guide
then the question would nebylo
THANKS if you help
I'll go check

All this is reflected in the leadership...

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A few questions about mind machines

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