Mind-machine in comparison with medical devices

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

So, just want to warn you: do not know what the topic to ask the question, asked in this, if I still chose an inappropriate topic, let valiant hidden users, inconspicuously displayed in the band statistics at the bottom of the main page of the forum (such as demos or Andrey Kabakov), will perform my moderator duties and will move my question to where it should. And the question is: as you know, a mind-machine helps to switch the brain waves to a certain frequency. Mind-machine I already have (not gonna say which, and the vicious owners of the site banned me for advertising on the website, because my mind-machine is not on sale here). And here recently on the same forum I learned about a medical device type is "Electric". Now the main question: in a mind-machine to change the frequency of brain waves is achieved mainly by light stimulation. And in devices such as "Electrosleep" - due to contact with electric pulses directly in the eye, however, I have little idea how it's, but nevertheless. So it turns out that devices such as "Electrosleep" faster and more effectively enter a person into the desired state than a mind-machine, for misleading man electrical impulses directly penetrating the brain. And mind-machine causes these impulses only indirectly, by means of light exposure. So, for example, for insertion into a trance better fit such medical devices? Only if you can answer honestly, as if it's hard for someone else, and not on the principle "everything that we have, it is still better"!

[Igor]

Here HERE I described one device, unfortunately I don't have the mind-machine so stavnivat can't, but I got something for You can you clarify about the sleep.

And devices such as "Electrosleep" - due to contact with electric pulses directly in the eye, however, I have little idea how it's, but nevertheless.

the Effect of electrosleep consists of reflex and direct effect of the current on the formation of the brain. The current penetrates through the holes of the eye sockets into the brain, spreading along the vessels and reaches the sensitive of the cranial nerve nuclei, pituitary, hypothalamus, reticular formation and other brain structures. Lead is a neuro-reflex mechanism of action of electrosleep associated with irritation such an important reflex zones, such as the skin of the eye and the upper eyelid, which then by a reflex arc through gasserov node is transmitted to the thalamus and then to cerebral cortex. The combination of reflex effects with receptor apparatus with the direct action of the current on the brain dampens the activating influence of the reticular formation of the midbrain and neurons coeruleus to the cortex and activation of limbic formations, in particular the hippocampus.

Ie if simple through the vessels of the upper eyelid, as by wire, the impulse gets to the deep part of the brain, and the eyes in this process do not participate.

So it turns out that devices such as "Electrosleep" faster and more effectively enter a person into the desired state than a mind-machine,

For this assertion we need at least to carry out comparative tests.

So, for example, for insertion into a trance better fit such medical devices?

As an active user of electrosleep I can say that its duties it performs very well, but on the introduction of a person into an altered state of consciousness(trance), a very controversial issue.
This has happened to me once in the whole lifetime.<

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

ie if simple through the vessels of the upper eyelid, as by wire, the impulse gets to the deep part of the brain, and the eyes in this process do not participate.

This is the tenth most importantly, as I understand it, the current enters the brain.

For this assertion needs at least to carry out comparative tests.

Well, I'm asking - my words it is a question, not a statement! I ask those who know!

As an active user of electrosleep I can say that its duties it performs very well, but on the introduction of a person into an altered state of consciousness(trance), a very controversial issue.
This has happened to me once in the whole lifetime.

I have a hunch that using "Electrosleep" it is possible to achieve a stable condition of the TRANS - enough to put it on that frequency, which corresponds to the frequency of brain waves when in trance. Ask knowledgeable people confirm or deny as important for me to know!

[Практик]

Potamotrygonidae

as you know, a mind-machine helps to switch the brain waves to a certain frequency.

Well, that's how I understand it as a theory still remains...
Ie is none where confirmed yet and especially any research(credible scientist and the medical community, no)
So MM sold as players for entertainment(officially) and bought interested to study and research( in fact)
And I should add that the effect they give, it definitely.

[Андрей Патрушев]

I Have a hunch that using "Electrosleep" it is possible to achieve a stable condition of the TRANS - enough to put it on that frequency, which corresponds to the frequency of brain waves when in trance. Ask knowledgeable people confirm or deny as important for me to know!

The thing is that electrode are not the same frequency (150-300Hz), and in most models they are not displayed (fixed)... And the question is not what the device is effectively immerses (bonus question - who, exactly?) in ASCS, and that You are going to do, and why You need it. Mind machine - a more gentle method, but due to this it is more flexible to use.

[Андрей Патрушев]

Well, that's how I understand it as a theory still remains...

Strange statement. That being said, "medical fact", recorded in the 40-ies of the last century.
For example, excellent review articles in major scientific journals and a list of articles on studies with control groups (if anything, placebo).

[Андрей Патрушев]

By the way, appeared in Russia and medical devices (that is, complete a medical certification). Google the words "color-impulse therapy"...

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

the thing is that electrode are not the same frequency (150-300Hz)

Disingenuous. I have seen information about that in some models you can set the frequency of 70 Hz (i.e. below 150).

(further question - who, exactly?)

Well, let me as the average person!

and the fact that You are going to do

I admit, I have nothing to hide: deliberately experience a particular state, to introduce it into the subconscious, and then it became part of my identity - that's why I want to go into a trance while maintaining a share of control.

Mind machines - more gentle method, but due to this it is more flexible to use.

So You admit that "Electric" is a more hard-line approach in contrast to the mind-machines, and he, though does not give this flexibility but are able to provide faster results?

PYSY. Well... once Again began wagging tail... Y-HY-HY-HY-HY-s-s-s!

[Димас]

so, just want to warn you...., answer honestly, how hard would it for someone else..., So You admit that... :

What a strange way of asking for help, asking a question, isn't it?

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

I'm not asking for help. I ask the question and let someone answer it. Specifically I'm not forcing anyone. Not wag his tail, my dear!

[Димас]

PYSY. Well... once Again began wagging tail... Y-HY-HY-HY-HY-s-s-s!

So I like You this wobbling started the post above? By the way, what a strange analogy? Surely again the machinations of Professor Transfiguration?
PS Have cats on the forum to run.

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

Dmitri, show me WHERE I wag my tail! I clearly, in the military asked a question. Do not want - do not answer. Don't like the theme - delete (although in this case I figure it out that I You do not need to explain, we understand each other without words). Don't start rattling off meaningless words, OK? So I repeat the question without privredama verbal tinsel: if someone wants to, let him confess honestly: the apparatus "Electrosleep" effective mind-machines or not? Once again, Dimitri: if I just delete the question, well, You be an honest man, in actual fact!

[Тоха]

Have electrosleep one task. The machines other tasks. I got no sleep, but I think that the device is confined only to one clear function. He performs and turning the brain into the frequency of sleep. It is doubtful that it is possible to use other States when the brain hollowed one frequency.

[Димас]

Dmitri, show me WHERE I wag my tail!

PYSY. Well... once Again began wagging tail... Y-HY-HY-HY-HY-s-s-s!

HERE! You wrote that has begunwithout explanations from anyone. Just You first recorded this phenomenon and do not specify to the owner of the tail - hence, logically, wobbling began at You. Judging by the wondering " well.." It started suddenly, without intent and without control from Your side. That suggests that tail and You are two different entities, the fates United into one.
You also clearly said that the MM and electric - are two different things. Starting with the principles of the impact on GM and the CNS, ending with the notorious positioning. Electric - med. a device that works within clearly set the framework and functions expressed in its title. Declare (as the man held a monthly course on electrone) that the state of MM and Electrosleep completely different. Electric admirably with the problem of falling asleep and relaxation. MM is a trainer for the brain to educate a person to enter into the necessary state of consciousness and there is something to do or NOT to do (depending on goals).

(although in this case I figure it out that I You do not need to explain, we understand each other without words)

Someone? I have achieved something of course, but this understanding I do not have a...without words.

once again, Dimitri: if I just delete the question, well, You be an honest man, in actual fact!

Yes, what makes You think that us here fun to remove something???!!! <

[Андрей Патрушев]

are Evil. I have seen information about that in some models you can set the frequency of 70 Hz (i.e. below 150).

Let us, before the fingers to bend, You get to start what electrosleep, electroanalgesia and the transcranial electrical stimulation...

Well, let me as the average person!

Well, I'm not an outstanding climb but for me, the stimulation is not suitable, I her toupee (although, it would seem - what could be more something )...

I want to enter into a trance state while preserving some fraction of self control

What TRANS You want to come in? Shemales is a lot to count, many of them do not need any instruments at all...

So You admit that "Electric" is a more hard-line approach in contrast to the mind-machines, and he, though does not give this flexibility but are able to provide faster results?

Hard? - Yes, I admit it. There electrostrictive cells, electrolysis of the extracellular and intracellular fluid and unnatural shift of the extracellular potential...
Faster results? - For sleep, of course.
And th?

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

it is doubtful that it is possible to use other States when the brain hollowed one frequency.

You deaf? (My dear, I'm sorry, this is not rudeness, just too much you propuskaet my words past their ears).

There are devices such as "Electric" with adjustable frequency exposure.

Dimas - you is also addressed.

I repeat the question a third time - well, let electrosleep is for sleep. But since it is possible to set the frequency tuning on the TRANS, it is, therefore, an optional function of this device it can be used for the trance. And is it true that in this, and that, demAs case, it is effektivnee the mind-machine, "contractors such as" for the same purpose?

...Walk misunderstanding of the true essence of my words (of course, needless to say, deliberate) is already getting funny...

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

come on, before the fingers to bend, You get to start what electrosleep, electroanalgesia and the transcranial electrical stimulation...

Thank you, on a superficial level, already have.

what TRANS You want to come in? Shemales is a lot to count, many of them do not need any instruments at all...

With the devices easier. Are there any objections?

faster results? - For sleep, of course.
And th?

If you set the right frequency, not only for falling asleep. Mind, please, essentially. Or You for this honesty and objectivity is not enough? I would like to hear from you!

[Андрей Патрушев]

There are devices such as "Electric" with adjustable frequency exposure.

You deaf? (My dear, I'm sorry, this is not rudeness, just too much you propuskaet my words past their ears).

Alaverdi.

[Андрей Патрушев]

There are devices transcranial electrical stimulation with adjustable frequency effects (or universal, for example, firms magnon), but their cost is over 100 tyrov.
Good luck to psycomantum!

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

There are devices transcranial electrical stimulation with adjustable frequency effects (or universal, for example, firms magnon), but their cost is over 100 tyrov.
Good luck to psycomantum!

Thank you, Andrew, need to the conclusions I made for myself (in other words, I won the argument, but you never admit it). I will look at the devices for transcranial electrostimulation. And at least relative fairness. thanks. Bye everyone!

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

PYPYSY. In vysheperechislennyh me the words of Andrew heard a shame... HY-HY-HY-HY-HY-s-s-s !

[Тоха]

I never would have thought that the Deafness bothers to read the texts.
But I do not understand why You created this topic, if you have a clear opinion on this matter?
And objections, you are unlikely to listen.

[Димас]

Toja
old friend the Troll

[Андрей Кабанков]

Some comrades, deprived of attention in real life, look for it on our forum, the theme may be anything and the answers to the questions posed here do not have special values, so I think...
Hope people satisfied with the communication and he got better

[ПочемуТолькоРусскими]

And objections, you are unlikely to listen.

I will, but common.

old friend the Troll

I mean?